Morten_Enevoldsen wrote:

Networking is a skill that should be taught at animation schools. A good way of doing it is to go to some of those friday bars that artists hang out at and either get introduced by somebody who knows them or striking up a conversation. Sure it might be awkward at first but you have to remember how much you want that job. Animation festivals are also a good place to meet people.

As for how to get into the business it really just matter about the quality of your work. Ask friends, whos work you respect or admire to give you honest critique and then mkae sure to make a reel that looks professional then you are more than half of the way. Then it all up to luck and opportunity. Oh before i forget: Always ask for feedback on your reel if you get a rejection. I have found that people will be very generous and helpful if asked

Well, this is another advantage of going to a traditional art college, especially one that combines cross disciplines into one single college.  CalArts, as far as I know, is unique in that it was conceived so deliberately by Mr. Walt Disney with the idea that students from different disciplines would mingle, giving ample opportunities to inspire and influence one another, as well as helping one another out.  Even within the Animation Dept., the cubicles allowed for Freshman through Seniors mingling with each other.  While there was some competitiveness and rivalry, many animation students helped one another out with their student films.  Those experiences last a lifetime.  I'm connected to most of my former classmates and teachers through social networking (Linked In, Facebook).  One in particular, was an earlier CalArts student before my time, but was my Supervising Director for a TV show that I animated for (first animation job).  He's currently working on a pilot that he conceived and I offered to help out.  He was grateful for the offer, but wants to try and do the whole thing himself, however, that opportunity only came through knowing him professionally as well as personally. 

This club provides similar opportunities to collaborate and help each other out.  Networking isn't rubbing elbows with people who have already been successful in the industry.  To me, that's just being opportunistic and shallow.  Networking is building working and personal relationships with other animators/artists to where others come to know your work as well as know you personally and those relationships will last a lifetime.

Last edited by stevenanimator (05-18-2011 12:27 pm)

Morten_Enevoldsen wrote:

I totally agree. I apologise for being unprecise.

No worries.  I was stating in general as I think some might have the hollywood image of some unknown being discovered by chance (or by just running into the right person) when real networking is quite different. 

I would add that I don't think you should be overly non-confrontational or be too afraid to speak your mind, disagree, or even express your dislike for another artist/animator in the industry, because personality clashes do happen in the entertainment industry all the time and animation is no exception.  I remember when Brad Bird came to speak at CalArts and one of the longtime teachers there, Cornelius (Corny) Cole, would rant on about how Bird had no talent of his own.  It was amusing as I had no idea why he disliked Brad Bird so much, but that was Corny.  He never held back from speaking his mind.

Alle wrote:

Morten_Enevoldsen wrote:

... A good way of doing it is to go to some of those friday bars that artists hang out at and either get introduced by somebody who knows them or striking up a conversation. ...

Hi that's what probabily Morten mean:

http://www.bringyourownanimation.com/Home.html

..better if you are in London!
Alle

And I MUST quote Alle! I attended monday session and it's been amazing! It's a great opportunity to meet other animators and professionists and a unique opportunity to receive feedback on your animation !
For London/Uk animators: the next session is June 20! Don't miss it!

ManaDragon wrote:

Lots of neat tid bits of info here, it's a better understanding than before. 

I guess I'm wondering how you can sell yourself when you're just starting out.  I've been to a few meetup groups with other animators and effects artists, actually I have seen 3 people who've been to AM, although I wasn't able to really connect to any of them (Not just the AM grads)  Maybe I'm the only one intimidated when others are more further along than I am.  In those situations, it's difficult to really say too much without having a real understanding of the process, or how a lot of companies generally work.  Mostly because I'm still learning, it's almost like I don't know what I'm talking about.  It's weird, I just get freaked out meeting other animators

Maybe by the time my animation starts looking better, I'll have known more and can interact a bit better.

Well, including on forums, say if you send out personal emails to specific animators, (I'd recommend someone who is not a lead or supervisor, and someone who style you admire and want to achieve like), for them to help you out in your animations, provide feedback, critiques and such, AND you'll actually progress with your animations, they'll more than likely help, or keep helping, you out. I wouldn't recommend harassing animators. Send out one email to a few, and see who responds. If one don't respond, don't keep spamming them. Sometimes they may not respond until months later, some may respond quite quickly.

That's one way you can get your name out. Forums such as this is another cool way. Animator on different levels check out these forums, especially cgtalk, although it's been quite sometime since I checked out that site. But if you post work, and progress, odds are you'll get recognition. There's youtube sensations happening everyday(Justin Beiber), just need to show off your stuff.

Not sure if that helps or not but thats just my 2cents

I guess it depends if you go for games or movies. I only worked with games over the last 3½ years and to be honest I have never had a really good animation reel. I managed to get into digital illusions through internship with some choppy animations but once I was on site I kinda learned what really matters.

To get a job there is this 'thing' where you have to show yourself, be able to sell your stuff (portfolio is really important here..) and your personality but once you're hired it's more how you act, perform, willing to learn (even non-animation tasks..), open for suggestions, problem solving etc. rather than just being a good animator. From my experience I use very little 'pure' animation skills and spend most time dealing with mocap, working with designers making sequences, blocking up rough things that will be mocaped.

I think many people has high expectations of hand-keying and just animating like you do at home once you're on-site but that's usually not the reality (at least not in games..) I'd say it's 60/40% portfolio/personality to get the job, but once you have it it's more like 30/70% talent/personality. I can't say how it is in movies but if you know that you might be a bit isolated, a bit annoying or just a pain to work with you might want to consider changing that before trying to get a job (it even helps getting it if you get to an interview..)

Last edited by eriksvensson (05-18-2011 8:07 pm)

stevenanimator wrote:

ajfrank wrote:

Well, including on forums, say if you send out personal emails to specific animators, (I'd recommend someone who is not a lead or supervisor, and someone who style you admire and want to achieve like), for them to help you out in your animations, provide feedback, critiques and such, AND you'll actually progress with your animations, they'll more than likely help, or keep helping, you out. I wouldn't recommend harassing animators. Send out one email to a few, and see who responds. If one don't respond, don't keep spamming them. Sometimes they may not respond until months later, some may respond quite quickly.

That's one way you can get your name out. Forums such as this is another cool way. Animator on different levels check out these forums, especially cgtalk, although it's been quite sometime since I checked out that site. But if you post work, and progress, odds are you'll get recognition. There's youtube sensations happening everyday(Justin Beiber), just need to show off your stuff.

Not sure if that helps or not but thats just my 2cents

I think you kind of have to prove yourself (unless you've got a stellar, knock-yer-socks-off animation reel) and the best way to do that is to find opportunities to collaborate, assist with other artists/animators.   IMO, the artists out there that are keeping animation alive are the ones making their own films - animation shorts.  They aren't waiting to finally get noticed by the big studios and ironically, the ones that choose to pave their own path often get the attention and admiration of the big studios.  Look at people like Nick Park or Brad Bird as examples.  With the power of today's computers and software, there's nothing stopping anyone of us from making our own films.

It's incredibly romantic and quite possibly unrealistic, for most aspiring animators to believe that if they can simply animate a cool walk or act to a decent line of dialogue, that Disney or Dreamworks is going to offer them a job.  It may still happen that way to some extent, but the vibe I'm getting from the connections I have in the industry is that as more and more aspiring animators enter the job market, it will be more and more difficult to stand out from the rest.  And a studio is much more prone to find animators who are also good film makers than one that makes pretty animations, but can't tell a story.

Yeah I know already that nowadays the only way to stand out or to get a chance at a film studio is to make a awesome storytelling reel, or short. That's kind of one reason what's holding me back from releasing a new reel, other than NDA's on stuff I've worked on and currently working on, and a busy personal life. I want to make sure I create a cool, story telling reel that'll work for film studios, plus have a mixture of body mechanical stuff good for games as well. I have a very bad habit of starting a personal piece then losing interest in it, stop working on it and I'll try to come up with something better. Artist though who're sitting around, doing nothing yet waiting for that big hit, are not going to get no recognition for obvious reasons.

What I was stating before though is for how people who're new to animating and trying to network but don't know how to, is how they can contact other artist or animators via email. When I first started out at my college, I contacted a few artist, and most responded back and helped me out during my early days of animation. I wish I contacted them back when I was making my student reel but times were hella rough at that time (finishing college and graduating with very very little money in my pockets = very very hungry days and weeks). But I contacted them after I made my reel and finally had food in my stomach, and they were happy to hear from me and that I completed school and whatnot, and they also told me what was wrong with my reel and what I can do to fix it.

I can only imagine that emailing artist would be about the only way someone who's self teaching and/or not attending a school, would be about the only way one can network. Emailing and actively producing work and posting on online forums

Morten_Enevoldsen wrote:

eriksvensson wrote:

...I can't say how it is in movies but if you know that you might be a bit isolated, a bit annoying or just a pain to work with you might want to consider changing that before trying to get a job (it even helps getting it if you get to an interview..)

There could be a whole other thread about proper conduct in a work environment. You would be surprised about how some people act at a job.

Definitely! I think it's good to work on the person as a whole cause no matter how talented you are, if you can't pull off the whole work situation then you might want to switch career. It's far from only being good with animation that keeps you in the business. Sometimes some really lousy artists manage to stay in the industry because they are good to work with and tries hard enough.

Hi!
Sorry if this has been said before, but I unfortunately don't have the time to read all posts.
What I found is this:
When the animation dept gets cast, usually the anim supervisor selects about 150% as many animators as needed for the show, usually based on preference and skill.
Those animators get passed on to the recruiter who then sees who of those animators is avaliable and possibly negotiates a price. But the person who then has to choose who is going to end up getting that job is usually someone who has not much knowledge of animation and just compares the animator's price with the amount of big hollywood blockbusters on the animator's reel.
That's how it always works. But that applies for already experienced artists only.
So, unless you are lucky enough to have an animation supervisor as best friend, as an entry level animator you will get a job in this field only as intern, or, and this is the big skill you need (next to animating), you're able to sell yourself very well.

An example:
I know a former colleague of mine who is a very good animator and also a great guy, was promised the supervisor post on the next feature, and then another animator came along, not quite as good or experienced, but has a flashy and recently updated reel with many hollywood productions on it, and said "Hi! Here I am! I'm the best animator you can get! I'm exactly the guy you were looking for! What Job can you offer me?" He did this very convincing and got the Job as supervisor on the next feature.
The other guy, who's reel was some years old and is some sort of a rather quiet person didn't. He got pretty bitter on the job and left shortly afterwards.

So, to put it in a nutshell, you need to:
-be able to sell yourself convincingly
-be flexible
-be a great networker and know as many people as possible. The more people you know, the more people think of you when casting a staff.

Hope this is not too controversial, but that's what my experience showed me.
And please, don't work for free. You might get a Job that way and the needed experience with it but you'll absolutely destroy the market price of a qualified animator's work.

Sorry for rambling

Cheers!

Wolfi

Last edited by wolfor (08-19-2011 4:31 pm)

surbhi1789 wrote:

hey adam I am on the same situation as well..i am doin nothing these days except practising on my animation.
really its very difficult to get a job and specially or freshers as all the companies want is experience..but where would the fresher get experience from..
well i would suggest we shoudnt loose hope..and keep trying coz this our field of interst..and someday sooner we will get a job..
all the best buddy..

don't let that whole "we want 12 millennium years of experience" fool you. I know first hand that companies will pick up an artist, regardless of years of experience, even if they fresh out of college or a womb, as long as your/there skill set/quality of work is up to par. Experience basically shows on paper that you may know what your doing in a pipeline. If somebody bust out a demo reel that looks like the animation quality in the movie Tangled, I'm sure a studio would not hesitate to call that pesron

ajfrank wrote:

surbhi1789 wrote:

hey adam I am on the same situation as well..i am doin nothing these days except practising on my animation.
really its very difficult to get a job and specially or freshers as all the companies want is experience..but where would the fresher get experience from..
well i would suggest we shoudnt loose hope..and keep trying coz this our field of interst..and someday sooner we will get a job..
all the best buddy..

don't let that whole "we want 12 millennium years of experience" fool you. I know first hand that companies will pick up an artist, regardless of years of experience, even if they fresh out of college or a womb, as long as your/there skill set/quality of work is up to par. Experience basically shows on paper that you may know what your doing in a pipeline. If somebody bust out a demo reel that looks like the animation quality in the movie Tangled, I'm sure a studio would not hesitate to call that pesron

Took BJCrawford a while to get a job at blueskystudios and that guy can wield a pencil like a mortal god, it can really make you wonder sometimes.

surbhi1789 wrote:

hey adam I am on the same situation as well..i am doin nothing these days except practising on my animation.
really its very difficult to get a job and specially or freshers as all the companies want is experience..but where would the fresher get experience from..
well i would suggest we shoudnt loose hope..and keep trying coz this our field of interst..and someday sooner we will get a job..
all the best buddy..

hmm why don't u try freelancer sites mate? like Odesk.com or freelancer.com

or sell your 3d Models and Accessories at 3docean.net

I also like Fiverr.com for simple stuff

jzone32 wrote:

Does anyone else feel like family makes it even worst trying to find a job?

I kinda understand what you mean. Not that my family doesn't mean well, and they always give me any news or tips on potential jobs when they find them. But sometimes I don't think they realize just how hard animation is or how much hard work and practice it takes to get better at it. No one in my family has ever gone into an artistic field yet, so they all seem to think I'm really good at what I do, while I'm realizing more and more every day just how little I know and just how much more I have to learn. It's a wee bit frustrating sometimes.

~VelkynKarma