#1 02-01-2013 7:18 am

Roawb
Registered: 08-13-2010
Posts: 154

watch this if you are considering to work for free

original topic title: I thought this would be appropriate

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Legend

Last edited by wolfor (02-01-2013 2:54 pm)


Protect us, oh, Lansbury, from rude teenagers,. from soup that is both too hot and too cold,. and from anyone who calls but please have people call

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#2 02-01-2013 9:13 am

Nexus
Registered: 11-29-2012
Posts: 72

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

Preach!!!

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#3 02-01-2013 12:50 pm

madfrog
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From: Narnia
Registered: 09-02-2010
Posts: 330
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Productive!

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

Thanks for sharing....every artist should watch this...smile

Last edited by madfrog (02-01-2013 12:53 pm)


"An animator's life is always full of breakdowns" -  Me

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#4 02-01-2013 2:04 pm

miss_Robot
Registered: 11-28-2012
Posts: 9

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

I loved your example with a plumber!
In Russia we have a lot of free-lance job offers with "no money, but it's a great opportunity to improve your skill". Thanks a lot! I can improve my skill doing stuff I like and I want.

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#5 02-01-2013 2:51 pm

wolfor
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From: Germany
Registered: 03-23-2008
Posts: 4452
Karmojo: 75
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Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

+1

Actually, I think I'm gonna rename and stickie this topic to the job board so everyone watches it. Hope you don't mind me doing it smile

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#6 02-02-2013 4:16 am

laurencekit07
From: Batangas, Philippines
Registered: 02-16-2012
Posts: 69

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

Thanks for sharing. Yup, everyone should see this.


A picture is worth a thousand words...
  3d animation is worth
   about two million words a minute...

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#7 02-14-2013 4:15 pm

Aidope
Registered: 09-22-2011
Posts: 10

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

Couldnt agree more mate. Glad I sat and listened to what you said. Never again will I undermine myself like I have in the past.

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#8 03-27-2013 8:01 pm

Sharas
Registered: 03-14-2013
Posts: 1

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

Thanks, you are right mate. A lot of companies these days looking to increase their profits.
I was going to do something for free to improve my skills but now I'll think about before I'll decide.

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#9 03-27-2013 10:14 pm

naeemahmed
Upright Citizen
From: Toronto
Registered: 04-06-2010
Posts: 127
Karmojo: 49

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

so true i will parade this msg i hope companies will understand thanks for share

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#10 04-30-2013 7:54 pm

Arther
Registered: 04-11-2013
Posts: 1

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

He's absolutely right!!! It's our experience, our time and our blood, we shoudn't waste it for free!

Last edited by Arther (04-30-2013 7:54 pm)

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#11 06-06-2013 7:26 pm

danieltheflame
From: Avondale Estates, Georgia
Registered: 02-04-2013
Posts: 2

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

I just got out of college and I didn't know stuff like that was happening, thanks for the heads up.

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#12 07-08-2013 7:08 am

A12run
From: Chennai, India
Registered: 04-05-2013
Posts: 1

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

Always follow your advice..

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#13 10-11-2013 8:58 am

bazeba
Registered: 10-09-2013
Posts: 1

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

thanks for your video man, makes you feel more valuable big_smile

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#14 01-14-2015 7:04 pm

maxmagnus
Registered: 01-14-2015
Posts: 13

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

It's not just the artists that get exploited in this way it is same with other lines of work.  And the thing is that your pay is your value. Get nothing and that is how much your value is...

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#15 04-10-2015 9:00 am

andrewjohn1317
Registered: 04-02-2015
Posts: 6

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

Thanks for Share this video and i was happening


Get FREE Stuff , Products and Coupons http://www.munchkinsandwich.com/free-stuff-USA

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#16 10-22-2015 9:15 pm

comicsserg
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From: Belgium
Registered: 12-16-2007
Posts: 653
Karmojo: 61
Productive!

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

good point!


Serg Bel.

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#17 10-27-2015 11:14 am

amartya
Participator
From: Mumbai, India
Registered: 11-06-2009
Posts: 102
Karmojo: 7

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

Thanks for sharing this..


Keep animating with a smile on your face cool

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#18 10-28-2015 3:09 am

RyanHagen
Upright Citizen
Registered: 06-16-2007
Posts: 1110
Karmojo: 48
Moderator

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

I agree with the video in context.  He's talking about BIG companies approaching you wanting to use your work for their profit.  Which is ridiculous. 

However, I don't buy into the mentality of "screw you, I work hard for this stuff, pay me sucka".  I definitely think this should be a sticky, it should be something everyone thinks about. But I can't tell you how many times i've offered my abilities for free. 

Case and point, short films produced by "online friends".  I have helped work on many projects for free.  Devils, Angels and Dating for one.  Did I get a payment for the work I did on that? No.  Did I expect one? No.  Do I feel used? No.  I feel like I helped a person accomplish something they couldn't do on their own.  I feel like I was a part of a team of individuals that never set foot in the same room and still produced something that was great.  I'm thankful for that experience and many others.  I'm honored I had the opportunity to be a part of something bigger than me.  Sometimes, you have to put your ego aside, and your pride, and choose to be a part of something that really could use you to get off the ground.  You have to choose to use your ability to make something great and commit, if only half way, but still commit.  Devils, Angels and Dating is not the only project i've worked on pro bono, and it won't be the last.  If I feel something towards something, then i'll do what I want.  Regardless of what someone tells me I should do. If my heart tells me to do something, then I will.  And if anyone thinks that a video on youtube by a guy saying i'm hurting the industry as a whole will stop me from doing what I want.  You're grossly mistaken. I do what I do for me, not for you, or anyone else.  And if anyone is hurting artists, in my opinion(and perhaps Ralph Bakshi's), it's the major studios out there.  They tell people they're not up to par with what they want, and they quit.  I'm sure i'll get some disagreement with that.  But I am who I am and i'm comfortable with that.  Everyone is so hung up on working for a major studio, no one gives a carp about your name in the credits but you.  If you truly cared about art, wouldn't you be doing what Ralph Bakshi has done, or Bill Plympton, etc.  Rant over.

Edit: I'm not arguing against what the OP has posted in any way.  I'm also not in agreement.  This isn't a black and white issue i'm afraid.


Ryan
Animator
"Frustration is the handmaiden of creativity" ~ Chuck Jones

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#19 12-13-2015 4:32 am

GeneralJist
From: California
Registered: 06-01-2015
Posts: 12

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

maxmagnus wrote:

It's not just the artists that get exploited in this way it is same with other lines of work.  And the thing is that your pay is your value. Get nothing and that is how much your value is...

Umm, Sorry what?
You do know, people who think like that are the true slaves to the system?

I get the sense you missed a key part he mentioned, is "your worth more than that", meaning not just your worth more than no payment, but your self-esteem, and value as a person is worth more.

People who only think this way never do passion projects, and think they're above all that.

Money is not your worth, you are your worth.  Society wants you to think it is, since that is how it keeps you working for a system, and not creating true art.

Art (any form) is passion, is blood sweat and tears, and some choose to be of service, and others, like you, never get out of the grind, to realize money is a symbol, which only has as much value as you give it.

I've been trying to recruit from here for months, for a passion project (mod), and despite me mentioning several times it’s an unpaid position, and no one is getting paid, a few times, the 1st question they always ask is, how much will you pay me? Even before I see the quality of some of their work.

This video breeds entitlement, stokes egos, and discourages the true meaning of art. 

It boils down to extrinsic or intrinsic motivation.
Do you do art for the money?
Or
Do you do art for expression?
Sure, It’s great to have both, but you have to be good enough.

True artists hone their craft at all hours of the night, after full time jobs, and during holidays, at the cost of relationships, they sacrifice for their craft, with the hope that one day they will be good enough to get paid off the bat.

Totally agree with ^ post.
Amen.
Sigh,

In my humble opinion, the video should never have been sticked, where I come from, something has to be way more balanced, and informative than this, to be stickied in a jobs section.

All this video really says is:
"I'm upset that big companies are taking advantage of small artists, so, just be aware  that big companies take advantage of littler individuals. And because of that, always get paid. Only a fool or a weak person would volinteer their effort for free. and ya, all those of us who are are the reason why stuff like this happens."


Shocker?

No, stuff like this happens because  of the way the system/ industry works, and the ethics it breeds.

Why?
Capitalism 

/Rant over/

Last edited by GeneralJist (12-13-2015 4:58 am)

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#20 12-27-2015 11:12 pm

Alessio
Registered: 07-16-2015
Posts: 7

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

Aside from the fact that i think i've met this guy once in Lucca Comics in Italy and was sitting together alongside an animation school's booth (a bad animation school by the way, so i guess he was there only for showing himself) and didn't really like his attitude towards me when i showed my animation portfolio: not that he was a jerk, but he made me waste my time. A person with a portfolio is obvjously in search of a job in the field, just tell me he's not there for application. bah.

I don't know if he's sincere about it and if he was just trying to shove his ego, but i agree with everything he has said.
And about what user GeneralJist said, it's all terribly wrong! Who decides you have not passion if you want to be paid for what you do? Taking the plumber's example, you'll never find a plumber who will say "meh i don't care about money i do it for passion no need to pay me".
If you want to make animation for hobby it's your own business. But  please DON'T accept a contract for free! You're just taking away a job opportunity from someone who wants to animate for a living instead and wants to get paid!!! Wanna work for free? Publish your works in your blogs but as long as there are people willing to accept to work for free, there will always be people ready to exploit aspirant careerists.
Silver's the one who is right about this: it's your fault, you that accept to work for free, if contractors find excuses to not pay you.

I just can't conceive that artist are still willing to give away their skills for free for the excuse of doing that peculiar job.
I'm just desperate to find a way to start my career, trying to avoid people who will not want to pay me and promptly there are people who are willing to do it for free. This is just irritating!

If art is only a passion for you, keep it for yourself. Don't go accepting job even for free. DON'T pollute the already polluted field.
I am an animator, and it's really my passion and my dream is to work in a major studio in America. Therefore NO, I'LL NEVER WORK WITHOUT A REVENUE!!!

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#21 01-29-2016 10:43 pm

GeneralJist
From: California
Registered: 06-01-2015
Posts: 12

Re: watch this if you are considering to work for free

Somehow you overlooked the part where I say it's good to have both passion and money, but you don't always get both in a job. As well as you have to be at a decent enough standard to be worth paying.

I'm tired of the elitist attitude, but indeed, if you go into an employment contract without being paid, then that's no good.

But people do good house work without being paid, it's called being a handy person.

Regardless, you say it's your dream and your passion, then tell me what's the price you put on that?

You might be surprised what connections and doors will be opened if you don't go in demanding money. It's the same thing in the Industry, and networking, how your only "friends" with someone so they can maybe get you a job down the line?

And once you have that job, you burn the bridge, thinking they were just a tool in your life to get you to your dreams?

I was just emailing an Industry executive I know, and he was so thankful for the years of pure passion me & my team displayed for his franchise, he offered to do some digging on our behalf.

I guarantee you, if I was getting money from what we were doing, and or blazed my Resume in front of him at any time, the conversation and interaction would have been different. And likely wouldn't have went in that direction.

Industry pros get thousands of wana be game dev people from all different disciplines, trying to get them to give them a job. How do they decide who is worth their time?

By finding the one's more driven by Passion than money, money is a byproduct of your passion if you do it right. But having passion be the byproduct of money is not workable.
Another example, I was recruiting for my project, and I came across a producer who had done a few indie projects, and I asked him why he wanted to get into game design, his response was because of esports, and how much money that brings in, and how he wants to have and be involved in that, he had some other qualities that didn’t sit right with me, and I let him talk himself out of working with us. (since if I said I didn’t want him, the natural response would not have been conducive to keeping him as a contact.
Anyways,   
Not being able to afford to take free gigs is another thing, that's if your living paycheck to paycheck, and having bills pile up, I don't blame any of those, or if your already an established business.

But if you sit there, and say I don't do free since my time is worth more, and you pass up solid passion/ hobby projects for the simple reason of pride, (and you sit on your hands, just waiting for that perfect paid gig) then you’ll just take longer to get to your dreams, I guarantee you that.

Unless of course you have a minimum of a bachelors degree in your field, then I can kinda see it.

Last edited by GeneralJist (02-10-2016 9:01 pm)

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