#51 04-15-2012 6:35 pm

iest_rob
Tipster
From: London, UK.
Registered: 06-14-2007
Posts: 453
Karmojo: 29

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

This might be my last update on this, as I won't have much more time to play around with it next week.

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Has anyone get any comments, anything that stands out?
Thanks!

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#52 04-16-2012 1:26 am

Kromany
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Registered: 12-30-2010
Posts: 5
Karmojo: 45

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

Completely redid his walk.  Any other things i can do to make him seem happier?

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#53 04-16-2012 9:50 am

blackbird256
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Registered: 07-28-2011
Posts: 168
Karmojo: 15

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

Hi guys, the entries are very creative and unique... For some pretty dumb reasons (i messed up my mouse..and you know maya: no middle mouse button, no animation), i'm not able to start my shot yet. I'm thinking i should try drawing it on paper. haven't done that before. anyway, i have a few thoughts on the cool shots already up..

Kromany,
The story ideas and poses are coming through but they seem to float from one to the other. I think you need to use more "copied pairs" (copy the pose across a few frames, maybe 2 or 3 and then alter it slightly on one of them to create a hold or ease in/out) Plus, watch the feet, man. Some of the foot shuffles are not natural (especially when he picks the coin up. You should have weight shift when he's settling his feet after picking the coin since he moves from a bent position to a straight one)

Pom pom gali,
looks interesting so far, keep it moving.

iest_rob,
i see no reason why that shot isn't good enough. If i was to be picky though, I'd say the only part with a problem is the ice cream transition to moom. there's a slight hitch there but like i said, hat's just being picky.

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#54 04-16-2012 1:12 pm

wolfor
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From: Germany
Registered: 03-23-2008
Posts: 4452
Karmojo: 75
Moderator

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

Guy, this is great!
Iest, I think apart from the polish one can always apply, I'd say yours is done. You might want to hide the icecream arm away when it delivered the cone, since the fingers pop around a bit. (you might have noticed big_smile) Also, maybe the facial change when he percieves the ice cream is very snappy, maybe adding one or two frames to that, or else making the follow through of the head a bit more clearly might make this look slightly smoother?

Guillaume, I really like your Idea, lets see where this is coming to! Maybe you could try changing his banking a few times more often when he's doing the airplane big_smile

Kromany, this version is much better than the first one, but (on top of what blackbird said) you might want to try to push the timing more. For example, when he's coming down again from his skip, that's a bit floaty, he could easily land two frames earlier.
What I still find a bit distracting is that your camera is anticipating his movement in that its starting to move as he's starting to run. Usually, a camera is rather reacting to a characters movement.
So, basically it shouldn't start moving before the character has already run for about 6-8 frames. Better still, you might want to stage it so it doesn't  have to move at all, if you don't find the cameramove necessary in a storytelling sense.


Keep going!

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#55 04-16-2012 9:39 pm

Ohjin
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From: London
Registered: 08-21-2011
Posts: 318
Karmojo: 11

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

Im having a bit of trouble with the transition into the walk.

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Last edited by Ohjin (04-16-2012 9:42 pm)

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#56 04-17-2012 7:25 am

wolfor
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From: Germany
Registered: 03-23-2008
Posts: 4452
Karmojo: 75
Moderator

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

Ohjin wrote:

Im having a bit of trouble with the transition into the walk.

You do? I can't see any major troubles... Maybe you can point to the place that gives you headaches? Looking great, btw!

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#57 04-17-2012 8:25 am

Punkboyleech
Model Citizen
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: 01-01-2008
Posts: 10
Karmojo: 52

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

Hey all, I've posted a bit before but have yet to actually participate in anything on here, saw there were these mini challenges though and thought I might get back warmed up by joining in here.  But in the meantime while I struggle with nailing down an idea, thought I'd join in on the comments and critiques and see if I can't help.



OhJin:  This is looking really nice so far, really nice, good job.  I love that it is not over the top with the acting, nor is it too serious.  I do see a few things now that I have watched it multiple times.

1. Twinning: I see a lot of it happening here, if you could tray and alter the poses so that they aren't so symmetrical, I think you'll have a fantastic piece here.  The main twinning I noticed was the flower inhaling part, both hands are grasping the flower stem, and both feet are positioned the same way and bent the same about.  I suggest you look at the key poses for that part, and just explore variations on it to break up the symmetry.  The same with the walk cycle pose, the fact that his face is facing the one way more than the other is great, but the arms are both the same and the torso is straight up and down (then again, if your going all Ballerina, you probably are more of an expert on than me, and possibly ballerina's are taught to always have their back straight up and down rather than leaning to the sides).

2. Transition from beginning to cycle:  You mentioned it was giving you trouble, and I think I see what you mean.  from what I can tell, you are so focused on matching the first pose of the walk cycle that you are missing the opportunity to have the fun with the transition that you could.  Now the fact that he walks off on tip toe gives me the feel of a ballerina, if that is the case, maybe you could have him do a small ballerina hop into the walk cycle instead of just having it transition into it.

3. I got nothin, great job so far!



Kromany:  Good job mate, looking good so far.  I don't have much more to say that hasn't already been said by Blackbird256 and Wolfor.

1.  I would like to add to the critique about the camera:  The move you have right now, is suggesting to the viewer that there is something behind him that we need to see to enlighten us on the reason it is silly that he is happy about getting 1 small coin (say... he is a scrooge McDuck character and it is turning to the right while dollying left because it wants to reveal his large mansion in the background.).

2.  Speaking of Scrooge McDuck, your character seems to lack some of the "character" he should have to be whole.  We know he is a random dude, and we know he is happy about getting a coin, but... that is the base for your character, now you should think of some of the people you've seen in movies or shows and think "how would this person act if they were the one picking up the coin".

3. and Lastly:  I think you might go back to the mini-challenge guidlines "Everybody has done walkcycles by the hundreds, I'm sure, but what most people are neglecting a bit is the (not-that-easy) task of having a character start walking".  This means the challenge is to not just make a walk cycle, but the before situation and transition to the walk cycle (from what I can tell this isn't a walk cycle, but maybe your plan was to have the cycle happen after he clicks his heels in joy, if so, ignore this last crit... and just add a little more to the end so we can see his happy walk cycle)



Iest_Rob: Brilliant!  Love this, great use of a moving hold, love the pacing, the character, the cycle... it's all great!  I really can't find anything to critique... other than agreeing with Wolfor about the icecream man's arm creating that tangent over there that pulls on the viewers attention when it should be focused on the kid with the ice cream.  Again great job, great job.



Pom Pom Gali:  This is looking pretty great so far, love the idea.  I am guessing this walk cycle isn't in its normal straight line fashion, but rather in a weaving back and forth pattern.  the only thing I wonder though, is are you pushing the poses as far as you want?  is the character as reserved as that? or are you holding yourself back from pushing the poses to their limit (main pose I am thinking about is the wind up and throw poses).  Great job, keep it up, definitely lookin' forward to the finish of this piece.



This is as much time as I have for tonight, if I get a chance tomorrow, I'll see if I can't offer a critique on the other animations too (and hopefully I can offer something for others to critique here soon).

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#58 04-17-2012 9:54 am

Ohjin
Helper
From: London
Registered: 08-21-2011
Posts: 318
Karmojo: 11

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

@Punkboyleech - Thanks for the indepth critic. All points are noted and will be worked on, looking forward to the hop, I think it will make a big difference.

Great website, any chance of a 2012 showreel?

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#59 04-17-2012 8:04 pm

pom pom gali
Rockstar
From: France
Registered: 08-31-2011
Posts: 37
Karmojo: 74

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

Thanks a lot for the comments!
Small update, I'll try to work on this piece a bit everyday until the end of the week.

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#60 04-18-2012 6:31 am

jigar_03
From: Delhi,India
Registered: 11-18-2011
Posts: 160

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

sorry it's been a long time..rather i didn't have time sad
anyways i have done some changement ...people you wil see the problem between 95 to 96F a very bad jerk will be there...coz it is in different scenes, i will do it in the end of importing both

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#61 04-18-2012 6:45 am

jigar_03
From: Delhi,India
Registered: 11-18-2011
Posts: 160

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

@pom pom gali it is very nice....but i would just add one more,
(1) anticipation before walking (between 41-47F)

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#62 04-18-2012 8:46 am

wolfor
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From: Germany
Registered: 03-23-2008
Posts: 4452
Karmojo: 75
Moderator

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

Great, guys!
Jigar, you might want to add some overlap on practically every moving bodypart between 50-80. This would give this movement much more force and snap.

Cheers!

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#63 04-18-2012 10:10 am

jigar_03
From: Delhi,India
Registered: 11-18-2011
Posts: 160

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

@wolfor thanks, i will do that smile

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#64 04-18-2012 2:50 pm

pom pom gali
Rockstar
From: France
Registered: 08-31-2011
Posts: 37
Karmojo: 74

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

Hey, thanks jigar, yours looks nice too.
One thing that bother me is the winning pose from 58F. Maybe you could extend his arms to the sky. Starting like they are now and then extend to the sky, before actually bending and going forward. Also as it is now, the left hand is hiding the face.

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#65 04-19-2012 12:08 am

Ohjin
Helper
From: London
Registered: 08-21-2011
Posts: 318
Karmojo: 11

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

Another update.

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#66 04-19-2012 12:10 am

Ohjin
Helper
From: London
Registered: 08-21-2011
Posts: 318
Karmojo: 11

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

@jigar_03 - The begining timing does make him look like he's falling asleep a couple of times. I think you need to slow it down a bit, or just balance out the timing a bit.

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#67 04-19-2012 3:05 am

Kromany
Upright Citizen
Registered: 12-30-2010
Posts: 5
Karmojo: 45

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

Alright, so i extended some of the poses, made the end have a bit more of a jog, and sped up the part where he is coming down from the jump.   I still need to tweak the knee popping up when hes about to jump, and the heel-toe movement of the feet.   Also, do any of you use the trax editor to extend your walk cycle?   because i find it quite difficult to do without the character going out of control.

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#68 04-19-2012 9:09 am

Ohjin
Helper
From: London
Registered: 08-21-2011
Posts: 318
Karmojo: 11

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

@Kromany - I love the jump. The stand up needs weight pushing down on his left leg, then his left leg pushing back up for stability.
Maybe try some anticipation before the run.

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#69 04-19-2012 9:11 am

wolfor
Rockstar
From: Germany
Registered: 03-23-2008
Posts: 4452
Karmojo: 75
Moderator

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

Looks great guys! Ohjin, that's great, but the transition from the bigger to the smaller steps is too sudden. You might want to add another step in between, that is shorter than the first, but longer than the others.

Kromany, this camera angle is not a good idea either, this is too wide. This way you cannot clearly see how the guy feels about what he found. You can skip the part with the jog afterwards, that not needed, I think, and concentrate on the jump and the straightening up.
Keep going!

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#70 04-19-2012 9:43 am

Punkboyleech
Model Citizen
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: 01-01-2008
Posts: 10
Karmojo: 52

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

Looking good guys, lotsa improvements, great job.  I'll see if I can't critique a bit more as I take a break from the planning stage of my attempt at this challenge, I did a quick batch of storyboards in my sketchbook this afternoon. I am planning to have a guy with an umbrella exit a bus, pop open his umbrella, notice a lady walking away in the rain with no umbrella (possibly using her purse as a semi head cover), he'll run over to her, offer to share the umbrella, and then they both walk off happy.  After finishing the critiques that appear after this... I realized that this will be what I eventually do, but for the purpose of this exercise, I will simply do the part where he runs up to the lady and offers to share his umbrella with her.



Pom Pom Gali:  I like that you've pushed the poses more, and the banking now is terrific.  I have a few comments/critiques though.

1.  Wind up:  This feels a bit lacking in the power you seem to be trying to achieve, and I think that it possibly is because the hand is following the head forward and never giving your pose a nice straight arm to slingshot forward.  In other words, I believe you might play with having the arm hang back on frame 14, get to frame 14's hand position in frame 16, and then catch up at 18, with the arm swinging down as it tries to stop after throwing.  Again I think you should push the poses more, especially the recoil and toss... make those poses alone feel powerful (recoil = restraining power, Toss = releasing restrained power).  I am sorry to keep commenting on this part tonight, but every time I watch it I realize something new that could possibly help strengthen the piece.  The wind up; you have him lean back and raise is foot, but he lack any turn.  Now maybe no turn is on purpose, if so, whats the reason?  turning towards the arm with the airplane hand will give it sort of that baseball pitcher wind up power, which, in my mind, would work.  If you do try that, then make sure your raised foot does a night arc back as it winds up, and then goes into the step forward.

2. Release!:  Like the wind up pose, you could push this more.  on frame 18 you have the hips going back, when you probably should have them easing a little more forward, and then hold for a few frames, THEN go back.  the pose forward has the feeling as if he was trying to stop himself from throwing the airplane.  If you want to get more power in the release, I believe if you push the hips forward some, push his upper torso down a bit as if he is leaning forward further, turn his upper torso further the way you have it, push the left arm back so it too is somewhat helping him balance.  you might try prnt/scrn capturing this pose, pasting it into a document in Photoshop, and drawing over it to see what you could aim for... without having to fight the rig.

3. Timing:  at the moment it seems you have too much your are trying to have happen in too short a time.  The shock pose at 32 happens way to soon after the throw, and personally, I don't think you need it.  I believe your piece would do just as well without it, and it will give the audience a brief pause before the kids goes into fly mode.  The piece before this latest video seemed to me, to be about a kid around 5-8 years, that throws his paper airplane, and then starts imagining he himself is flying around too.  Thus, the shock/surprise doesn't seem to fit into that story, but stories change, and maybe you have a new idea for how it should go... at the moment it just seems out of place from the rest.

Sorry for the lengthy critiques, you piece is fantastic so far, just would love to see it get to it's full potential.



Jigar_03:  Very good mate, I am liking the idea, and the character you've put into the walk away.  There are a few things though:

1.  Scanning the lists:  As has been said before, it looks like he starts to fall asleep twice, rather than looking for his name.  one thing I noticed after watching it a few times was the fact that his hand seemed to be doing something other than helping him look for his name.  his hand will follow where he looks, but it should not match the timing at the start or end of his head moving when scanning, and when he finds his name, it should take a few frames before he pulls it up to point at the name.  The end part of the scanning, when he sees his name, he is looking at the middle of the top page, while his hand is pointing at the top of the bottom page.  Would his hand not go back to the top middle point at where he found his name? and if his name is where his hand is pointing... why is his head looking at the top page?

2.  Celebration:  first thing, it is too fast... at the moment it kind of looks like he was yanked back by an invisible rope rather than celebrating his achievement.  The anticipation before the celebration is the second nod that looks similar to a falling asleep gesture, you might think about instead having him lean back and scrunch down a bit before exploding outwards with the joy you have him doing right now.  That's about it... OH, and twinning... twinning makes him look like a robot rather than a happy human being :)

I think that's enough for now, it is getting better, keep at it.  Just remember your principles and all should work out well.



OhJin:  Haha thanks for visiting my site, I had wondered about the sudden spike in views the other day. And about a new reel for 2012, I unfortunately didn't have character animation work last year, and spent my spare time working on my digital painting skills instead.  Due to having not really having any newer character animation, I am trying to get back into the swing with these contests.

Heck yeah, The piece is coming along nicely mate, really love the flower smelling part.  I am finding it hard to critique mate, I guess mainly I can just make suggestions on ideas that might make the poses read better.

1. MMM flower:  I love the fact that he is wafting the smell up to his nose, but at the moment, the last bit of it has his hand covering his face, which seems a bit odd.  Could you possibly try having his hand waft the fragrance up and then go up/out?  as in, have it go left up and out instead of up and right... I don't know if that would work necessarily, but it might be worth a quick sketch to see.

2. hop:  It's alright at the moment, but the speed and arc seems off to me.  I would think with this hop, you don't want as much distance as you do height... possibly.  I don't know exactly how to fix it, mainly at the moment it seems to throw the pacing off... or it looks as if he should be going into a fast walk/tip toe run.

That is all I got for this, great job so far, great job, looking forward to the next iteration!



Kromany:  Hey, things are looking better, still a few things to tweak.

1.  Character: I am still finding it hard to figure out what kind of character he is.  Without thinking of the your shot's character, the rig becomes simply a robot that does your bidding... I mean, yeah, that is what it kind of is... a puppet, but as animators we are trying to get the viewer to believe the rig has feelings and a life of it's own.

2.  Camera:  I am not sure this pushed out camera is working for you necessarily... that is just my opinion though.  I think if you kept a similar distance as you had before it would be fine, just don't have it move in from of the character when he starts to go.  With it closer up we'd be able to see what the character is doing and why he is now happy, and you can then just dolly left with him once he starts running... or dolly left and pull out possibly... would take a little exploring.

3. Ending walk/jog:  The legs are too bent all the time in this, bent legs tend to happen more when you run than walk right?  you might get a friend to help you with this and have them walk back and forth over a little distance, THEN have them run back and forth over a little longer distance, all the while watch how their legs move, watch how their arms bend and relax constantly.

Keep at it man, it's getting there, and can't say I've messed with the Trax editor much, so sorry I can't help you there.



I am sorry if my Critiques got shorter as they got towards the end... I keep forgetting just how long these take, and it is now too late to be up for me here.  I hope these notes are useful, and look forward to your finished pieces.

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#71 04-19-2012 12:48 pm

jigar_03
From: Delhi,India
Registered: 11-18-2011
Posts: 160

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

thanx everyone, i am going to change it and most probably i will update it tomorrow smile

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#72 04-19-2012 3:59 pm

pom pom gali
Rockstar
From: France
Registered: 08-31-2011
Posts: 37
Karmojo: 74

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

@Punkboyleech Woww thanks a lot for the critiques and the time you take to do that!
Don't be sorry for the length of your comments/critiques. You can write a book full of those if you want tongue This is great great feedback! I've worked on some of the points you noticed and I will work on the rest of them. The shock/surprise pose is not what I want, I messed it up. As you said I want the boy to look at the paper airplane and imagine that he is flying too (like in the previous version). I'll work on that.
Your story sounds very good too, looking forward to watch it.

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#73 04-20-2012 2:58 am

Kromany
Upright Citizen
Registered: 12-30-2010
Posts: 5
Karmojo: 45

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

Update:   Added a weight shift when he picks up the coin, made it so he was really lifting off with his left leg in the big jump, straightened out his legs in the run at the end (even though you can barely see it in this shot), and hopefully fixed the camera so it isn't crazy.   Im probably going to add a monocle and a top hat (because thats what i picture coin collectors to look like).  I don't really know what to do for the anticipation, any ideas?  Btw thanks for the critiques, they help a lot!

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#74 04-20-2012 8:30 am

jigar_03
From: Delhi,India
Registered: 11-18-2011
Posts: 160

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

ok this is the recent update...i have changed many things but this is only of the shot_1....

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#75 04-22-2012 12:51 pm

jigar_03
From: Delhi,India
Registered: 11-18-2011
Posts: 160

Re: MC 29: Lets take a walk!

ok this is the final.....

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Last edited by jigar_03 (04-22-2012 6:37 pm)

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