#51 08-02-2010 5:14 am

Ramimator
Upright Citizen
Registered: 08-05-2007
Posts: 181
Karmojo: 45

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

Camaro wrote:

Guys for the love of all things holy don't freakin' turn this into an argument about something so stupid. We are entitled to our opinions, thats fine, but take it elsewhere if you want to argue. Yes, the rigs have similarities, let's leave it at that.

Abdelhak wrote:

guys, guys, how about we stop trashing this thread with pointless arguments and get back to the subject, Plus i think everyone here agrees, that a design in the direction of my previous posts, the female rig, is something we should head towards.. NOW lets drop the nonsense arguments and begin designing smile

I'm sorry guys, I never been here to argue but i had to show something in the subject of rigs, to let him realize the point...that's it...anyway back to our beautiful girl's rig..smile


Ramimator's Blog

Blowing LIFE in a puppet's body...big_smile

Offline

 

#52 08-02-2010 5:17 am

Kreator
Upright Citizen
From: Wherever I May Roam
Registered: 11-05-2008
Posts: 2560
Karmojo: 42

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

Its understandable Rami, but if paulnaas continues to argue, simply ignore him. He is contributing nothing to this thread or the development of the rig.

Back on topic: I indeed like the girl rig design that was posted, I think that would be a great starting point. Also, I'll make a checklist of features and props that should or could be included sometime tomorrow.

Offline

 

#53 08-02-2010 5:35 am

abdelhak
Upstanding Citizen
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: 09-08-2008
Posts: 40
Karmojo: 30

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

nw rami, as camaro already said, if it continues, just ignore. anyways, now that we're back on topic, we should also find some people here who are willing to get to the designing, i would help to, but i'm not much of a drawer, but in terms of the rig i can help, if needed. oh and Camaro, good effort, i think a checklist is a good way get us started on this sucker smile

Offline

 

#54 08-02-2010 5:35 am

Ramimator
Upright Citizen
Registered: 08-05-2007
Posts: 181
Karmojo: 45

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

Sure no prob Guys....This is also a good example of a rig but in Blender.... it's the link that has been post in the cgtalk forum that Camaro created...funny rig..big_smile..You should have a look guys...and the second link is an example how they only use it in "the cup"...

               

Direct Link



               

Direct Link

Last edited by Ramimator (08-02-2010 5:38 am)


Ramimator's Blog

Blowing LIFE in a puppet's body...big_smile

Offline

 

#55 08-02-2010 5:47 am

Kreator
Upright Citizen
From: Wherever I May Roam
Registered: 11-05-2008
Posts: 2560
Karmojo: 42

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

Well I have tried contacting people who have rigging reels on YouTube, but I can't seem to post any comments. Is anyone else having this problem?

Offline

 

#56 08-02-2010 6:43 am

DanCe3d
Model Citizen
From: San Francisco
Registered: 03-12-2008
Posts: 522
Karmojo: 52

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

I got some designers who are going to start on some concepts later! sweet...


Strive beyond the obvious... there you will find ART.

www.angelostacatalina.blogspot.com

Offline

 

#57 08-02-2010 7:56 am

Martyn
Model Citizen
From: Eating marmite
Registered: 06-17-2010
Posts: 677
Karmojo: 56

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

Tickle thread if any of you have an account.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread. … ost6628240


Learning animation is like walking on a path that keeps widening until you're running in a field of ever-expanding possibilities. - via Clay Kaytis's fingers, 14th July 2010, Twitter, Earth

Offline

 

#58 08-02-2010 9:38 am

DanCe3d
Model Citizen
From: San Francisco
Registered: 03-12-2008
Posts: 522
Karmojo: 52

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

gotta get one


Strive beyond the obvious... there you will find ART.

www.angelostacatalina.blogspot.com

Offline

 

#59 08-02-2010 11:21 am

cosmicfool
Upright Citizen
Registered: 07-22-2008
Posts: 697
Karmojo: 45

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

I made a brief suggestion earlier but would like to share some wisdom with you guys.
Its great and all you want a nice rig to use to make animations for this site with. Scrolling up I see only 2 people who want this rig have contributed an entry, and its only been 1(side note, I know I havent entered the competition, but im just to busy)
There is a large long long long free list of rigs that you guys have access to. Look at the great stuff that has been done with norman on this site. The vampires, the females as of late, the satans, the wrestler, the tarzan, list goes on and on. Other great rigs, moom, blake, squirrely, andy. Even some cool film specific ones like the Librarian, Lisa etc...
For students learning animation, these rigs are good enough to win this competition and get you into the industry. And with a little know how you can make Norman look like any pixar character outside of cars and nemo. I honestly don't see the point. I suggested making a cool easier geo modding system for norman, which by the sounds of it you guys will want in your new rig you wanna make cause bishop 2 has it. Why not just do that, skip your silly arguing and focus on animating.
And one more thought, if you wanted to all be able to put your heads together and do something cool. Why not all take the same norman file. Duplicate the geo, remodel it to look a certain way. Pass that blendshape geo onto someone with some knowhow and time. He can toss all those new blendshapes into the file, make some set driven keys and some sliders, and maybe even a gui if you ask nice, and voila you have your own norman2.0. Then you can assemble a cool prop library from there and you're laughing. And you can scrap approving models and designs and the bickering and the glyven and start critiquing eachothers new normans and do something productive, mmmmhey.


me fail english, thats umpossible.

Offline

 

#60 08-02-2010 11:41 am

Moximilian
Model Citizen
From: Sweden
Registered: 05-01-2010
Posts: 55
Karmojo: 53

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

I concur, I hate to say this but I don't think this forum will make a rig that's better then Norman. Its a solid piece of work that does the job, I don't see why we should do anything else then animating. smile

Offline

 

#61 08-02-2010 12:01 pm

Martyn
Model Citizen
From: Eating marmite
Registered: 06-17-2010
Posts: 677
Karmojo: 56

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

I feel really positive about this rig. Not only will it give the community an understand of the processes involved in rig development (something i'd love to find out), it'll give us the opportunity to create any number of custom setups for our own use, something that over time will grow to be a wonderfully versatile rig. Just imagine the possibilities! It can only improve over time.

Something else I really like about this idea is how it should enhance the sense of community, I think what 11sc does, it does really really well, but I do believe it would benefit from community based engagement, development and creation, as well as a sense of pride over our shared work. I certainly wouldn't dream of forcing anyone to get involved with this, but if people want to spend their time doing it, than I see that as a wonderful thing. The truth is (sorry to be clichéd here) but you've got to break some eggs to make an omelet, people aren't going to agree about everything all the time, but I think it's healthy to come up with solutions and engage in productive dialog.

I think the more we come together as a community the stronger our work will be and the more the website will benefit. And lets not forget the fact that any popular free rigs can only help spread the word about this place, more members means more entries means more eyes means more crits.

Being involved from the ground up will also give everyone a distinct understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the rig, further helping with crits and ideas. You don't have to use the rig, but darn it'd be nice to have the option.

If every endeavor was ignored because someone had already done something similar the world would be a boring place. I think there's enough wonderfully talented people on this site to make this happen, and if they want to help, then i'm all for it, it can't hurt to try, can it?

Last edited by Martyn (08-02-2010 12:03 pm)


Learning animation is like walking on a path that keeps widening until you're running in a field of ever-expanding possibilities. - via Clay Kaytis's fingers, 14th July 2010, Twitter, Earth

Offline

 

#62 08-02-2010 12:13 pm

abdelhak
Upstanding Citizen
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: 09-08-2008
Posts: 40
Karmojo: 30

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

Martyn wrote:

If every endeavor was ignored because someone had already done something similar the world would be a boring place. I think there's enough wonderfully talented people on this site to make this happen, and if they want to help, then i'm all for it, it can't hurt to try, can it?

well said, i'm also up for helping if we continue on with this thing smile, plus i myself am quite interested in rigging as well as animating, so i really don't think there is any problem with us making a new rig and branding it as the 11secondclub rig. smile

Offline

 

#63 08-02-2010 12:24 pm

DanCe3d
Model Citizen
From: San Francisco
Registered: 03-12-2008
Posts: 522
Karmojo: 52

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

cosmicfool wrote:

I made a brief suggestion earlier but would like to share some wisdom with you guys.
Its great and all you want a nice rig to use to make animations for this site with. Scrolling up I see only 2 people who want this rig have contributed an entry, and its only been 1(side note, I know I havent entered the competition, but im just to busy)
There is a large long long long free list of rigs that you guys have access to. Look at the great stuff that has been done with norman on this site. The vampires, the females as of late, the satans, the wrestler, the tarzan, list goes on and on. Other great rigs, moom, blake, squirrely, andy. Even some cool film specific ones like the Librarian, Lisa etc...
For students learning animation, these rigs are good enough to win this competition and get you into the industry. And with a little know how you can make Norman look like any pixar character outside of cars and nemo. I honestly don't see the point. I suggested making a cool easier geo modding system for norman, which by the sounds of it you guys will want in your new rig you wanna make cause bishop 2 has it. Why not just do that, skip your silly arguing and focus on animating.
And one more thought, if you wanted to all be able to put your heads together and do something cool. Why not all take the same norman file. Duplicate the geo, remodel it to look a certain way. Pass that blendshape geo onto someone with some knowhow and time. He can toss all those new blendshapes into the file, make some set driven keys and some sliders, and maybe even a gui if you ask nice, and voila you have your own norman2.0. Then you can assemble a cool prop library from there and you're laughing. And you can scrap approving models and designs and the bickering and the glyven and start critiquing eachothers new normans and do something productive, mmmmhey.

I absolutely see what your getting at.. But again look at it this way... The Norman is a great rig but it comes down that, its not something to be as proud of. Animating is great, but animating a character which you helped work on from the start is even better.

You can win with any of those rigs and yes they are good enough for getting a job but why settle for "good enough" when you can have better? Can this forum create a better rig then the good ones available? maybe.. maybe not.. but it wont hurt to try.. Besides, its quite fun and relaxing to think and plan about making a character rig. Maybe not all of you are fund of doing that but I tell you, there are many who would enjoy sketching up a design, and modeling it.. rigging it the best they can. Why take the that fun away? Camaro was inspired by the idea of creating a rig that had functions like bishop. I too was inspired. It wouldn't be fun work to spend a few hours just modifying a rig that is essentially someone else's work.

about the comp thing:
I've joined one comp 2 years ago when i was 3 months into animating and I was obviously unprepared but because of that, i learned a lot. What I'm trying to get at is that sometime's we'll never learn if we don't make those mistakes. And if trying to build a rig that should be better then norman, moom, andy, and all of the others is a mistake, then lets take it so that we can learn from it.

@moximilian:

It does sound crazy that us guys here at 11 second can top the norman rig and you could be right. He is indeed a very nice rig. But I gotta tell you (not to brag or anything), but the riggers at the studio I work at now have created some really fast, appealing, and reliable rigs. I've animated them myself and I gotta say, it feels more intuitive then the norman rig. All of the blendshapes are placed in controls that are easy to use. I asked them if they would be willing to help with the rigging if we lacked riggers and they didnt mind at all.


Strive beyond the obvious... there you will find ART.

www.angelostacatalina.blogspot.com

Offline

 

#64 08-02-2010 12:28 pm

DanCe3d
Model Citizen
From: San Francisco
Registered: 03-12-2008
Posts: 522
Karmojo: 52

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

Jeez well said Martyn... I wish I could organize my thoughts and write like you.. lol.. @_@


Strive beyond the obvious... there you will find ART.

www.angelostacatalina.blogspot.com

Offline

 

#65 08-02-2010 12:43 pm

DanCe3d
Model Citizen
From: San Francisco
Registered: 03-12-2008
Posts: 522
Karmojo: 52

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

Btw. There's this intern here at the office and I asked him if he wanted to design some stuff. He was happy and was really enthusiastic about it. He's still in college and already i see so much potential in his work. Maybe by tomorrow, he'll have some early studies ready for uploading. I'll try to look for more people


Strive beyond the obvious... there you will find ART.

www.angelostacatalina.blogspot.com

Offline

 

#66 08-02-2010 12:56 pm

Moximilian
Model Citizen
From: Sweden
Registered: 05-01-2010
Posts: 55
Karmojo: 53

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

I really do hope that you succeeds, it could draw some attention to 11 second club. And if you can get some professionals you have a large chance of doing so.

Best of luck!

Offline

 

#67 08-02-2010 2:05 pm

Martyn
Model Citizen
From: Eating marmite
Registered: 06-17-2010
Posts: 677
Karmojo: 56

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

Yea, Moximilian, cosmicfool, I totally understand where you're coming from, I'm just coming from a different way this time wink

DanCe3d, I dunno, I think you did a lot of bloody good points, and said a number of things I wish i'd said. Anyway, it's not very often I write something serious so when I do i've got lots of serious saved up!

abdelhak, I agree, I do. I think we can make it happen, or at least make a bloody good go of it.


Learning animation is like walking on a path that keeps widening until you're running in a field of ever-expanding possibilities. - via Clay Kaytis's fingers, 14th July 2010, Twitter, Earth

Offline

 

#68 08-02-2010 2:31 pm

Ramimator
Upright Citizen
Registered: 08-05-2007
Posts: 181
Karmojo: 45

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

Martyn wrote wrote:

If every endeavor was ignored because someone had already done something similar the world would be a boring place. I think there's enough wonderfully talented people on this site to make this happen, and if they want to help, then i'm all for it, it can't hurt to try, can it?

Yeah why not having a chance to try and as Martyn said there is a lot of talented people on this site in fact it will give a good experience to an online team work, which could help us in a way or another...so i suggest that the rig we build, will be from the insiders here from the 11 second club users...not outside...this is only a suggestion...I know you are doing a great effort by bringing talented and great people from outside...but 11 second club has also very talented people...come on we need more talented people to join this forum.smile..and we should inform moderators and ask if they can officially do this..it will also help a lot...

Last edited by Ramimator (08-02-2010 2:45 pm)


Ramimator's Blog

Blowing LIFE in a puppet's body...big_smile

Offline

 

#69 08-02-2010 4:34 pm

Kreator
Upright Citizen
From: Wherever I May Roam
Registered: 11-05-2008
Posts: 2560
Karmojo: 42

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

Wow, a lot has happened in a few hours, lol.

Anyway...cosmicfool, I definitely see where you're coming from, and I'm not going to write a two page counter-argument for why we should do this rig, mainly because Dance3D and Martyn beat me to it. With that said, I still think we should do this instead of modifying an existing rig. Sure, as animators we need to worry about actually animating and not anything else, but I've heard and read from numerous sources that it's good to at least know a little bit about the other steps in the process. Take Sean Burgoon, the dude that made the Goon rig. I just got in contact with him asking for his help on this, and he said he now works at ILM as a Character TD. And this is someone who spent 18k to go to AM, to get an animation job, and ended up as a rigger. Point is, what if by doing this rig, someone realizes that they really like rigging, even more so than animating, and they turn it into a career? You never know, it could happen!

There are plenty of other arguments, but I guess we can leave it at that. Modifying an existing rig would obviously be the easier option, but I, along with I think everyone else who has shown interest, want something to "call their own", something they can say they contributed to. And while those other rigs are great, release of new and good rigs like that are few and far between. I think us animators are due up for a really nice new rig, that can turn into hundreds, thousands, or even millions of different characters so the possibilities are literally endless. The prospect of that is simply way more exciting than modifying something that someone else has already worked on.

Also, as I am at AM, I only have to wait another 5 agonizingly slow months to get my hands on Bishop 2.0. In that time I could patiently wait, or I could take the initiative to do something similar and make a completely awesome rig with the same concept. I'm going with the latter.

Offline

 

#70 08-02-2010 5:47 pm

cosmicfool
Upright Citizen
Registered: 07-22-2008
Posts: 697
Karmojo: 45

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

Cool stuff guys!
I don't really foresee how you all plan on learning a lot from the rigging process, as opposed passing some geo onto someone who knows how to rig. Same with the facial set-up.
Definitely is worth a go if you guys are willing to share all the steps of the process through a public blog or something and share every step of the way. I had flashbacks of school, and visions of people wanting something for nothing. But if you are all willing to learn, and work then best of luck to you all! I'll definitely follow your guys progress.
Just remmber you all want to be animators, one of the things I love about how am works, is it just focuses on animation. Which Disney said takes 8 years to get a good grasp on! I'd love to hear Disneys number on how long it takes to completely master all aspects of a 3-D program 8 lifetimes?
Best of luck to you all!
cheers.


me fail english, thats umpossible.

Offline

 

#71 08-02-2010 8:10 pm

Ramimator
Upright Citizen
Registered: 08-05-2007
Posts: 181
Karmojo: 45

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

cosmicfool wrote:

Cool stuff guys!
I don't really foresee how you all plan on learning a lot from the rigging process, as opposed passing some geo onto someone who knows how to rig. Same with the facial set-up.
Definitely is worth a go if you guys are willing to share all the steps of the process through a public blog or something and share every step of the way. I had flashbacks of school, and visions of people wanting something for nothing. But if you are all willing to learn, and work then best of luck to you all! I'll definitely follow your guys progress.
Just remmber you all want to be animators, one of the things I love about how am works, is it just focuses on animation. Which Disney said takes 8 years to get a good grasp on! I'd love to hear Disneys number on how long it takes to completely master all aspects of a 3-D program 8 lifetimes?
Best of luck to you all!
cheers.

Hehe...yeah 8 lifetimes...maybe more...but we should have an idea or little knowledge about rigging...and from what i read in all big studios animation positions, is that rigging is always a plus...so why not??...yeah, it's a very good idea about sharing the rigging and modeling process..smile...but it all depends on who will do the rigging and modeling...anyway i wish the best...and I'm IN...in anything i could do..


Ramimator's Blog

Blowing LIFE in a puppet's body...big_smile

Offline

 

#72 08-02-2010 8:57 pm

Ajit Singh
Registered: 10-10-2007
Posts: 23

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

some thing more like Andrew Rig, but should have more cartoon look not real......

http://www.3dkris.com/Andrew_Rig.html

http://www.3dkris.com/Images/AndrewRigPreviewPic.jpg

Last edited by Ajit Singh (08-02-2010 9:02 pm)

Offline

 

#73 08-02-2010 9:02 pm

Martyn
Model Citizen
From: Eating marmite
Registered: 06-17-2010
Posts: 677
Karmojo: 56

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

Ajit Singh, nice one!

I say we all throw as many ideas an opinions on the general style as possible, it would be utterly wonderful if people could create some sketches or some concepts, even if they're super simple. Maybe then we can create a vote and let everyone decide. At the very least it can get everyone talking and thinking about what they want or don't want.


Learning animation is like walking on a path that keeps widening until you're running in a field of ever-expanding possibilities. - via Clay Kaytis's fingers, 14th July 2010, Twitter, Earth

Offline

 

#74 08-02-2010 10:29 pm

Kreator
Upright Citizen
From: Wherever I May Roam
Registered: 11-05-2008
Posts: 2560
Karmojo: 42

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

I say we take it even one step further and have different versions, such as realistic, cartoony, and even caricatured. These could all be dialed in to the desired intensities and whatnot. Oh and I almost forgot to do the checklist thing, so here goes nothin':

Base Rig (Basic have-to-have features):
-IKFK Switching (limbs, spine)
-Space switching for all body parts (a la Norman)
-Stretchy limbs
-IK lock (such as on a table)
-Layered facial controls (blendshapes and individual tweak controls)
-Ribbon limbs

Models:
-Proxy model that scales in proportion to the rest of the mesh
-Different styles (realistic, cartoony, caricatured)/Dialed in intensity of each
-Switch to male/female/old/young/tall/skinny/fat/short etc
-Body scaling to non-human proportions
-Levels of mesh smoothness

Custom attributes:
-Noses
-Eyes
-Mouths
-Hair
-General head shapes

Props:
-Hats
-Facial hair
-Clothing
-Suits
-Neckties/bowties

GUI:
-Basic picker functions
-Zero/Select/Key attributes
-Customization of all attributes
-Basic preset pose library for face and hands

I think that's a good place to start. It can always be expanded down the road. So for now I think the checklist could also serve as a sort of timeline as well, after it's designed and modeled of course.

Feel free to add ideas and I'll continue to update the list as necessary.

Offline

 

#75 08-03-2010 12:51 am

Jero 3D
Upright Citizen
From: Argentina
Registered: 02-24-2009
Posts: 323
Karmojo: 43

Re: 11 Second Club Rig

For the base rig we could also have the attributes for the feet like Roll, Heel Roll, etc. And there's something that Goon rig has that is really helpful that is Chest and Neck Influence. In the neck control you have the Chest Influence option so if it's 0 it won't rotate with the chest and it's a lot easier to animate. The same thing with the head but only it's Neck Influence.

Also I was thinking that for IK legs and arms we could have an option to turn on and off the knee and elbow Pole Vectors and have an option to twist the Knee and Elbow if you don't want to use them.

For the Model we could have Skin, Eyes, Hair, etc Color and also we could include a tie and glasses to the props and having a Smooth option is a must tongue so we can animate in low-mid quality and render it with the Smooth level at it's max.

That's all I found looking at rigs like Norman, Max, etc. The other thing I think we need to decide is how the controls will be, it's not too important tho, I don't refer to the shape by the way tongue For example, for the face we could have as Camaro said, control on the face that you can move around and also control on the attribute editor that you can increase or decrease, the blendshapes. The thing is that there are other options like having 1 control that has the shape of the head and in there all the blendsphapes or you have sliders around the head like Max does. For the arms and hands also, we could have a control for every finger or have 1 control for all the fingers. There are more stuff like this which is pretty pointless to decide now but I just wanted to say it so we decide it in the future.

I will post more ideas once I get them.

Last edited by Jero 3D (08-03-2010 12:52 am)


"Don't make it real, make it believable" - Ollie Johnston

Check out my blog! http://jeromaggi.blogspot.com/

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB
© Copyright 2002–2005 Rickard Andersson