#1 07-10-2017 7:20 pm

Manraj.Josh
Registered: 04-18-2017
Posts: 60

Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

Hii fellow animators.
I just have a small doubt.I hope experts can shine a light on this one,i am sure there are few people who want this to be answered.
I have a scene of a man opening a car door for a girl.But finds out its locked so he goes onto pushing it.Then realises he didnt hit the centre locking.So he takes out the key and open the door and the girl sits in there a bit angrily while he maintains a "embarrased yet smiling" behaviour.
This shot requires me to add overlap in spine when he tries to open the door.Thing is if i add moving holds yet keep the root moving,ot looks like the upper body stopped and then all of a sudden jumped to it and if i reduce the frames of the hold it feels rigid and feels like only the root is moving.Any tips or some help to fix this?I know there is no definitive answer for it but if someone can suggest how to make the animation really smooth.Like how do you get it so smooth.I have seen blocking done by other people and the base blocking feels so smooth and mine looks well blocky hmm.I want to take my work seriously and i try to but i still end up with blocky animation hmm

Last edited by Manraj.Josh (07-10-2017 7:31 pm)

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#2 07-10-2017 8:26 pm

RyanHagen
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Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

Can you show the shot?  It's a bit hard to understand what you're asking for.  If not, I will make some really basic suggestions that may or may not help.  In the blocking, if you were to animate on 3's or greater for that hold you can achieve some sort of movement in the spine during that point to keep it alive.  You'll need to go in and breakdown that hold to reduce the snapping of the motion from the hold to the action. In general, if the root is moving, so is the spine.
How are you currently blocking your animation?  I personally try to block(work in stepped) as I would animate in 2d.  I get my timing down, then breakdown the inbetweens, favoring one side of the action if needed. Working typically on 2's. I hope that helped a little.


Ryan
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"Frustration is the handmaiden of creativity" ~ Chuck Jones

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#3 07-11-2017 3:43 am

Manraj.Josh
Registered: 04-18-2017
Posts: 60

Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

RyanHagen wrote:

Can you show the shot?  It's a bit hard to understand what you're asking for.  If not, I will make some really basic suggestions that may or may not help.  In the blocking, if you were to animate on 3's or greater for that hold you can achieve some sort of movement in the spine during that point to keep it alive.  You'll need to go in and breakdown that hold to reduce the snapping of the motion from the hold to the action. In general, if the root is moving, so is the spine.
How are you currently blocking your animation?  I personally try to block(work in stepped) as I would animate in 2d.  I get my timing down, then breakdown the inbetweens, favoring one side of the action if needed. Working typically on 2's. I hope that helped a little.

I'll show in a while.I'll try to do what you said then be here with the right results. smile I work in spline mode.In stepped mode my animation lòoks like its a robot who has body parts screwed together by nuts and snaps in a frame tongue i tried adapting the common process but didnt work out for me so i sticked to spline mode if that makes sense.

Last edited by Manraj.Josh (07-11-2017 3:46 am)

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#4 07-11-2017 12:56 pm

RyanHagen
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Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

Everyone works differently, so that's more than understandable.  The theory still applies.


Ryan
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"Frustration is the handmaiden of creativity" ~ Chuck Jones

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#5 07-13-2017 6:33 am

Manraj.Josh
Registered: 04-18-2017
Posts: 60

Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

RyanHagen wrote:

Everyone works differently, so that's more than understandable.  The theory still applies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz0MMNT … e=youtu.be here is the shot.Without facial expressions.It's not right but it will let you know what kind of motion i want.Basically i want a exaggerated pushing in the 2nd time,either my timing is off or i am pushing it too much.Let me know what it is and i'll try to fix it.As of now it feels like a good idea that's not properly implemented.. smile

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#6 07-13-2017 1:16 pm

RyanHagen
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Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

If you post this to syncketch, it would be much easier for me to give you feedback.  Unfortunately I don't have time to write down everything I would suggest, if you post it there, I will do some sketch overs to help you a bit more.  In short, it's your posing, I feel, that is lacking the most at this point.


Ryan
Animator
"Frustration is the handmaiden of creativity" ~ Chuck Jones

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#7 07-13-2017 1:22 pm

Manraj.Josh
Registered: 04-18-2017
Posts: 60

Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

RyanHagen wrote:

If you post this to syncketch, it would be much easier for me to give you feedback.  Unfortunately I don't have time to write down everything I would suggest, if you post it there, I will do some sketch overs to help you a bit more.  In short, it's your posing, I feel, that is lacking the most at this point.

https://syncsketch.com/playground/6e0bd … c71#206033 i hope this is the site you mentioned.

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#8 07-13-2017 2:23 pm

RyanHagen
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Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

That's great, thanks for taking the time to do that.  I have a meeting here, but will share my thoughts shortly.  I've started to leave some initial notes, i'll come back and leave more after the meeting.


Ryan
Animator
"Frustration is the handmaiden of creativity" ~ Chuck Jones

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#9 07-13-2017 3:01 pm

Manraj.Josh
Registered: 04-18-2017
Posts: 60

Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

RyanHagen wrote:

That's great, thanks for taking the time to do that.  I have a meeting here, but will share my thoughts shortly.  I've started to leave some initial notes, i'll come back and leave more after the meeting.

Thank you.Although it looks i'll have to re animate it again with some more research.No matter what i do to fix the pull motion.I thought of the kind of motion i want,like a slithering roll of kinda motion,like an s curve,but i can't get to implement it correctly.Waiting on your response smile

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#10 07-14-2017 3:11 pm

RyanHagen
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Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

It's not the motion itself, it's the context behind it.  As it is, there are some fundamentally incorrect things happening, on top of not really  having any context behind the motions.  It's just going through the motions.  I left you quite a bit of notes, and i'm afraid to say, it's going to take quite a bit of work to get what you want.  I would really suggest, re-animating this and using your first attempt as a learning experience. My suggestion is to really give him a personality, make us truly feel for the guy.  You have a great idea for a test, but this would be a performance test, not a body mechanics test.  I think you could use some work on your principles overall in this and perhaps some "easier" tests to get a firm grasp on those first would be the best option. I'm going to move this to the personal animation forum as that's where it belongs and you might get further suggestions.  Keep rockin and let me know if you have any further questions.


Ryan
Animator
"Frustration is the handmaiden of creativity" ~ Chuck Jones

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#11 07-14-2017 3:22 pm

Manraj.Josh
Registered: 04-18-2017
Posts: 60

Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

RyanHagen wrote:

It's not the motion itself, it's the context behind it.  As it is, there are some fundamentally incorrect things happening, on top of not really  having any context behind the motions.  It's just going through the motions.  I left you quite a bit of notes, and i'm afraid to say, it's going to take quite a bit of work to get what you want.  I would really suggest, re-animating this and using your first attempt as a learning experience. My suggestion is to really give him a personality, make us truly feel for the guy.  You have a great idea for a test, but this would be a performance test, not a body mechanics test.  I think you could use some work on your principles overall in this and perhaps some "easier" tests to get a firm grasp on those first would be the best option. I'm going to move this to the personal animation forum as that's where it belongs and you might get further suggestions.  Keep rockin and let me know if you have any further questions.

thank you for the suggestions and notes smile
i decided yesterday to change the  vehicle too,i realised he cannot move his body like that with a car handle like that.So i changed the car similar to the one in my video(with a strong lock handle) cause i also need  rotation animation of the lock too.I'll also reduce the going back and forth values of the cog,felt too much for me.I'll come back with better results hopefully smile and apologied for posting in the wrong forum,won"t happen again.Thanks a lot for your response. smile

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#12 07-14-2017 3:44 pm

RyanHagen
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Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

For me personally, him pulling on a handle like that is perfectly fine, you're exaggerating what would happen in real life and it makes it quite comedic in nature.  Even though it couldn't happen in real life, it works and people will be able to suspend reality and buy into what you have happening.  Changing the car/handle, won't really make anything different other than that.  I personally love the fact that he's tugging on a little wimpy handle like that, it gives it personality. In fact, I would really push the CoG more personally, it's fun, and quite funny to see someone put so much effort into something that has such a simple solution.  Clever idea. No worries about posting in the wrong forum, that's why we have moderators.


Ryan
Animator
"Frustration is the handmaiden of creativity" ~ Chuck Jones

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#13 07-14-2017 3:53 pm

Manraj.Josh
Registered: 04-18-2017
Posts: 60

Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

RyanHagen wrote:

For me personally, him pulling on a handle like that is perfectly fine, you're exaggerating what would happen in real life and it makes it quite comedic in nature.  even though it could happen in real life, it works and people will be able to suspend reality and buy into what you have happening.  Changing the car/handle, won't really make anything different other than that.  I personally love the fact that he's tugging on a little wimpy handle like that, it gives it personality. In fact, I would really push the CoG more personally, it's fun, and quite funny to see someone put so much effort into something that has such a simple solution.  Clever idea. No worries about posting in the wrong forum, that's why we have moderators.

Ahh thank you! smile
I have a bunch of ideas and the best of them would go in my reel.I feel i have unique good ideas. smile just have to properly implement them! smile this is the 2nd shot.And i want to make sure every shot has quality in it.Can you give me any tips on animating effectively?i feel i put all these hours in it but the end result is not good enough hmm

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#14 07-14-2017 4:00 pm

RyanHagen
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Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

Show your work as often as you can, as early as you can.  Really that's the only way you're going to grow.  You lose objectivity on your own work, and it will suffer from that if you don't show it.  Getting feedback, even if you don't agree on the entirety of it all, will give you ideas you can at least attempt, and really see if it is an improvement.  Some suggestions you won't agree with, and on personal tests, that's just fine.  You'll be able to tell the difference between genuine suggestions from people that want to help you improve and suggestions that really don't have any weight to them.  And just keep practicing.  What you have isn't HORRIBLE, it can just be pushed a bit further in regards to the principles and then your performance/contextual elements can be thought through a bit more.  The trick is giving a character/object a personality and making the audience feel for a guy/gal/object, not just making the motions look good.  If the audience doesn't feel something towards something, they're not going to invest time into it.


Ryan
Animator
"Frustration is the handmaiden of creativity" ~ Chuck Jones

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#15 07-14-2017 4:11 pm

Manraj.Josh
Registered: 04-18-2017
Posts: 60

Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

RyanHagen wrote:

Show your work as often as you can, as early as you can.  Really that's the only way you're going to grow.  You lose objectivity on your own work, and it will suffer from that if you don't show it.  Getting feedback, even if you don't agree on the entirety of it all, will give you ideas you can at least attempt, and really see if it is an improvement.  Some suggestions you won't agree with, and on personal tests, that's just fine.  You'll be able to tell the difference between genuine suggestions from people that want to help you improve and suggestions that really don't have any weight to them.  And just keep practicing.  What you have isn't HORRIBLE, it can just be pushed a bit further in regards to the principles and then your performance/contextual elements can be thought through a bit more.  The trick is giving a character/object a personality and making the audience feel for a guy/gal/object, not just making the motions look good.  If the audience doesn't feel something towards something, they're not going to invest time into it.

You are absolutely right Ryan.I'll post here as much as i can.Will start Reanimating.tomorrow fixing the old mistakes a bit.I guess its like the person who makes never really likes it and hence relies on comments from others.I've had work that was in true sense horrible but i have surely improved from that thanks to my mentor smile
I'll try to do what you said smile be back with results soon smile hopefully more better results with principles in it smile

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#16 07-15-2017 7:23 am

Manraj.Josh
Registered: 04-18-2017
Posts: 60

Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

RyanHagen wrote:

Show your work as often as you can, as early as you can.  Really that's the only way you're going to grow.  You lose objectivity on your own work, and it will suffer from that if you don't show it.  Getting feedback, even if you don't agree on the entirety of it all, will give you ideas you can at least attempt, and really see if it is an improvement.  Some suggestions you won't agree with, and on personal tests, that's just fine.  You'll be able to tell the difference between genuine suggestions from people that want to help you improve and suggestions that really don't have any weight to them.  And just keep practicing.  What you have isn't HORRIBLE, it can just be pushed a bit further in regards to the principles and then your performance/contextual elements can be thought through a bit more.  The trick is giving a character/object a personality and making the audience feel for a guy/gal/object, not just making the motions look good.  If the audience doesn't feel something towards something, they're not going to invest time into it.

hey can the video be downloaded with the drawings you made on it?my internet is going on and off so i can't see them repeatedly..

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#17 07-15-2017 5:25 pm

RyanHagen
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Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

That i'm unsure of, I know there's a download button on there, just never attempted it so I can't speak from experience.


Ryan
Animator
"Frustration is the handmaiden of creativity" ~ Chuck Jones

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#18 07-15-2017 8:36 pm

Manraj.Josh
Registered: 04-18-2017
Posts: 60

Re: Blocky animation and Spine overlap.

RyanHagen wrote:

That i'm unsure of, I know there's a download button on there, just never attempted it so I can't speak from experience.

well the file isnt working properly.I was able to animate the way you said.But now it loads and plays very slow.Ughh so frustrating! 😩

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