#1 03-05-2016 5:51 pm

TaiBo
From: Massachusetts
Registered: 10-28-2011
Posts: 1115
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Confused on rating

So this month I got 69th place. I have been getting rated consistently above a 6 lately and this time was a 4.8. I'm not complaining, but I am a bit confused. I know for sure that I check for all the same principles and get feedback each month, but the variance this entry threw me off. I objectively think some of my other entries had worse animation and worse staging, but scored higher. I'm trying to learn objectively but the sudden shift in score seems off to me. Sometimes my favorite animations of mine just don't score well, even though I think they have better principle animation.

Maybe somebody can help me out with this? I know it's all subjective but there is a science to it and I must be missing something. Perhaps people favor certain rigs more?

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#2 03-05-2016 6:13 pm

thelittlepenguin84
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From: Bristol
Registered: 03-30-2010
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Re: Confused on rating

I thought it deserved at least a high five to low six (I judge how the entries compare through history of club. Click on the archives and see what is historically hit each star rating). Its an interesting idea. As many noted, it could have more texture to the movement while I think the mouth could do with more appeal.

Last edited by thelittlepenguin84 (03-05-2016 8:28 pm)

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#3 03-05-2016 6:22 pm

DarkFenix
From: Spain
Registered: 07-09-2014
Posts: 6

Re: Confused on rating

My "ascend trayectory" has been broken, too. But, in my case, not too much points have been lost.  : )

I don't know if it could be possible, but I think it would be great that we have the stars of every vote. Of course, witout identification. The average is good, but with every vote you can see if someone likes it more or less.

About the reason. I think that the position when your animation runs could affect to the voting. For example, if one of the best goes before yours, probably you'll get less points.

The number of animations in contest (and quality) is something to consider, too.

In my case, I think that it was fair. I don't know, maybe my others animations were overrated. : \

Let's see next time!  : )

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#4 03-05-2016 6:54 pm

taboo
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Registered: 06-30-2011
Posts: 32
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Re: Confused on rating

I thought yours was really good! It's definitely a six-ish on my scale, at least

Last edited by taboo (03-05-2016 6:54 pm)

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#5 03-05-2016 8:07 pm

RamParks
Registered: 05-28-2015
Posts: 24

Re: Confused on rating

Seeing your progress through the WIP section I think your animation deserved at least a seven in my opinion.
I'm pretty sure that a lot of voters just pick favorites based off rigs. And if an animator uses 2D animation they're pretty much guaranteed to receive a higher rating whether the animation is good or not.

I know it hurts a bit when you put a lot of effort in your animations, ask for feedback in the WIP section only to find you get a low rating come the end of voting.

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#6 03-05-2016 8:35 pm

Jimjams
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Registered: 12-02-2009
Posts: 55
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Re: Confused on rating

Okay, looking at the animation, there are some nice ideas. Some of the actions are pretty good, and the general composition is not bad.

These are my points, which I hope help. Bear in mind these are just my subjective views, so ignore them if you want, but these are just initial observations from a quick look.

I think the biggest problem with it is that it feels like it doesn't go far enough with the staging and posing i.e. you hit the main beats, but they could be pushed much further. Some of the poses and transitions are very linear, such as the lion's head turn at the end before 'what is wrong with you?'. The very screen left lion's initial pose is not very appealing; it feels like he goes pose A to B, back to A, and when he says 'I'm a vegetarian', he is only moving from the top/chest and to the side, when he should be moving forward. 'I don't eat meat', only his head turns, when there should be some chest movement too.

The second lion (pork, chickens etc.), the staging on him could be more interesting. He could lean on the zebra carcass. arms folded as he talks, for example. It also feels like the screen right lion isn't looking at the other one in the final shot. He should be facing him more, before turning back, or maybe a different camera angle.

If you compare it to your entry last month, the staging and animation there is a lot stronger, in my opinion. There is a lot of great little subtle movements and actions in there. You get a great sense of the character's attitude and mannerisms, especially on the 'black bill'. I think some of that subtlety is missing in this one. The beats are there, but not strong enough, in my opinion.

Hope you don't find my notes too harsh. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice piece. I'm just basing my opinions off ten years and five feature films of animation experience and what I'd most likely get told. But animation is very subjective, so don't take it too personally.

Last edited by Jimjams (03-05-2016 8:42 pm)

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#7 03-05-2016 10:41 pm

TaiBo
From: Massachusetts
Registered: 10-28-2011
Posts: 1115
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Re: Confused on rating

Thank you for all the replies. Maybe you're right and I didn't realize I'm missing a lot of texture. The top 11 is almost always all my top rated entries every month, so the voters aren't wrong when it comes to the top ratings. I will have to step it up next month.

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#8 03-06-2016 11:20 am

pooby
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Registered: 10-22-2009
Posts: 8
Karmojo: 9

Re: Confused on rating

I do think your previous effort was stronger in its overall effect. I really liked it.
This is party due to the asset, which appears to have a better range of expression and a more appealing design than the lion. The acting did seem more fluid and natural last month though.

Last edited by pooby (03-06-2016 12:51 pm)

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#9 03-06-2016 11:56 am

thelittlepenguin84
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From: Bristol
Registered: 03-30-2010
Posts: 2028
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Re: Confused on rating

Chameleon wrote:

What am I supposed to say? Although I've been here many times before under many different user names, and lost high expectations a long long time ago, I still didn't expect so low a place. I'm showing the same clip to the folks on newgrounds now and they're actually pretty receptive, much more so than here. Maybe because newgrounds is mostly for Flash stuff and this place is either full blown 3d or full blown Disney style 2d, both much harder to pull off. But for me, I was just testing my new Flash skills that for the first time relied mostly on Flash's own features than hand drawings and I was successful in that. At the end, how you feel about your work matters more than what people say, as arrogant sounding as that might be. Last year Rotten Tomatoes gave Chappie 16 percent! I went and saw it and to me it was at least a 75. So who cares.

so you have previous experience of low scores, thought to try out flash's toolset for first time, and are now surprised you hit a low score?

It can be said that animation is hard. I disagree about your comment of only one style, as there are frequent examples of unique styles doing well, including in flash.

Look through the archives using the unique and unusual filter. Outside of that, two of my favourite entries over time iare these:
http://www.11secondclub.com/competition … try/Zx0tOx
http://www.11secondclub.com/competition … try/MSeGGb

I can not speak for the newsground community, but here, yes traditional animation principles are valued. As a 2d animator, have you pursued much simpler tasks than 11 seconds of full character? If you have great, but you may also wish to try a task I gave a friend, was to try the ball course, ball and tail, and a forward walkcycle exercises in traditional 2d. He was experienced, but struggled and so would I, but it taught him so much.

http://www.amazon.com/Animation-Mechani … 0240516664

This book also has some great exercises in.

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#10 03-06-2016 12:35 pm

thelittlepenguin84
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Re: Confused on rating

               

Direct Link



these are the clips. They are training exercises and may not lead to work, but definitely help improve an artists skills

Last edited by thelittlepenguin84 (03-06-2016 12:35 pm)

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#11 03-06-2016 1:20 pm

thelittlepenguin84
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From: Bristol
Registered: 03-30-2010
Posts: 2028
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Moderator

Re: Confused on rating

Indeed. Everyone when they try 3d animation, wants to try Pixar style full character animation. But they need to do the training to get there.

You mentioned in your earlier post that this club values full blown 3d or full blown Disney style animation. If you can do the above, fantastic. If not, then instead, training on simpler exercises may come in handy.

You are correct, however. Though my friend has done well on this site, and has a commercial reel, he too is struggling to land any more than a few months work opportunities. It surprises me, but illustrates perhaps the difference in character animation and what is needed for some commercial work, where the principles may not be as important to nail.

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#12 03-06-2016 1:43 pm

thelittlepenguin84
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From: Bristol
Registered: 03-30-2010
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Re: Confused on rating

Note the above book contains 2d exercises. If that is not the path you wish to pursue, it may not be the book for you.

But practicing them, could improve your traditional character animation in the Disney sense.

Note, it is those principles which are valued on a site like this. There are great character animators who may not have the skills for some commercial work and very successful commercial artists who would struggle at character animation. This is a character animation site, where the traditional principles are demanded and looked for.

Last edited by thelittlepenguin84 (03-06-2016 1:49 pm)

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#13 03-06-2016 8:41 pm

TaiBo
From: Massachusetts
Registered: 10-28-2011
Posts: 1115
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Re: Confused on rating

Speaking of Disney, I'm at Disneyworld this week! 😬

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#14 03-06-2016 9:22 pm

RyanHagen
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Registered: 06-16-2007
Posts: 1111
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Re: Confused on rating

I think the 5 steps of grieving may apply here.  I say take what has been given to you, post it in the personal animation forum and see if you can get some good honest feedback(don't expect it).  If you take those comments and really think about how it could have made your entry better, you'll grow as an artist and animator.  Keep at it and remember, you can't be awesome all the time.


Ryan
Animator
"Frustration is the handmaiden of creativity" ~ Chuck Jones

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#15 03-07-2016 1:20 am

TaiBo
From: Massachusetts
Registered: 10-28-2011
Posts: 1115
Productive!

Re: Confused on rating

Ryan youre definitely right haha. I learned some things this month from other entries and am looking forward to applying them. In particular the playblast entries of the big guy who steals the sausage from the waiter, and the lion in a suit at the buffet. Such nice staccato movements and placed top 11 with a raw playblast.

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#16 03-08-2016 12:36 pm

KyleG
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From: Schell Games
Registered: 07-16-2007
Posts: 1723
Karmojo: 38
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Re: Confused on rating

I wouldn't look to much into the actual rating #

That can change drastically per competition

I will say though - that this animation is weaker than your past 3 attempts. Overall it just didn't feel as polished/some of the poses weren't as strong as they could have been

Oh...If you're in Disney...ride Toy Story Mania! I did animation for that big_smile


Kyle Kenworthy
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