#1 12-15-2013 4:29 am

felixHonda
From: Chula Vista
Registered: 11-26-2013
Posts: 43

WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Hi!

This will be my second submission to the club! With two weeks left in the competition, I'm struggling to find areas to improve (and I know there are many). Any advice on what I can do to make this animation better?

Below is a play-blast of the animation:

               

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Description: Be careful. This is what happens when you slam heavy objects in an old warehouse.

Experience: 5 to 6 months

Time taken: 10 days


felixHonda.

Platt College, School of Digital Media & Design [San Diego, CA] - Class of 2013

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#2 12-15-2013 8:43 pm

Easy619
Registered: 12-15-2012
Posts: 498

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Looks pretty good. The only thing I can think of is to have his eyes blink while he backs up.


"Computers don't create computer animation any more then a pencil creates pencil animation. What creates computer animation is the artist."

- John Lasseter

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#3 12-15-2013 11:00 pm

felixHonda
From: Chula Vista
Registered: 11-26-2013
Posts: 43

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

^^^ Thanks for the suggestion! I think I'll try to add in one or two and re-post the result. ^^^


felixHonda.

Platt College, School of Digital Media & Design [San Diego, CA] - Class of 2013

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#4 12-16-2013 12:11 am

felixHonda
From: Chula Vista
Registered: 11-26-2013
Posts: 43

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Okay so here is the animation again with the added eye-blinks!

               

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Any other critiques or suggestions to better improve this animation?


felixHonda.

Platt College, School of Digital Media & Design [San Diego, CA] - Class of 2013

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#5 12-16-2013 12:37 am

Ibeechu
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From: Jackson, MI
Registered: 11-18-2010
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Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Easy619's eye blink suggestion was a bad one. The character would be watching the ceiling carefully. he wouldn't risk shutting his eyes, even to blink. Never, ever add an eyeblink just because you don't know what else to do. Never do anything in general without a reason, for that matter.

I think the premise is solid. If I were to single out a single thing that isn't working yet, it's definitely the first walk forward. I could give you specifics on what, but I way, way recommend, if you are able, filming yourself doing this same walk while carrying something heavy (and not just miming something heavy; it needs to actually be heavy.) Or, find videos of people carrying heavy weights like this. Then, if nothing else, just analyze the hips. They're the most important thing in this kind of action and you should be able to sell it entirely on the hips alone.

What you should see is that the hips drastically shift over each foot before the other foot is lifted. In addition, when, say, the left foot is moving forward, the left side of the hip moves up in order to "swing" the foot forward.

Another issue with that walk is right near the end before he sets the barrel down. He sort of lunges forward, but his entire upper body stays in the same position. If you want him to lunge forward, he should lean forward first, as if the barrel is pulling him. If you weren't intending that, then it's just an issue with timing.

But, regardless, I think you really would benefit from filming yourself acting this out dozens and dozens of time, and then watching very closely how everything moves. Too often beginning animators neglect the benefits of simply filming themselves doing it and watching what happens. Or, if you're not able to film yourself, at least act it out yourself. Pay attention to where you're putting your weight. Think about WHY you're moving your hips, and WHY they're rotating, and WHY you move your feet when you do.

Again, I just want to reiterate that you should never be moving any of the character's body parts unless you know WHY you're doing it. That's such an important thing to remember and I see so many people who just move stuff for the sake of moving it. It leads to lazy-looking animation.

So there's my tips, and a rant :P I don't usually tend to go on rants here but, dammit, I really do care deeply about this sort of thing, especially since it's so easily solvable.

Last edited by Ibeechu (12-16-2013 12:40 am)


~EJ

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#6 12-16-2013 1:00 am

felixHonda
From: Chula Vista
Registered: 11-26-2013
Posts: 43

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Solid advice Ibeechu. Thanks!

Your points make sense and actually reminded me of some pointers from Animation Mentor about eye-blinks I read a few months ago. I'll easily remove them.

Also, as soon as I can, I'll film myself carrying something heavy and try to incorporate my movements to the forward walk.

I'm still fairly new to animation and really appreciate the advice. I'll re post as soon as I'm done!


felixHonda.

Platt College, School of Digital Media & Design [San Diego, CA] - Class of 2013

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#7 12-16-2013 1:29 am

Rafael
Registered: 09-03-2013
Posts: 40

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

That there was some really good advice Ibeechu. Good on you felixHonda for taking the advice wholeheartedly as a learning experience aye. As a student myself, I often see people get too precious about their work (both in rl and in forums) and it's real important to know when to take advice, especially if it's good. By all means you should always defend your work and your design decisions when being questioned if you really feel they should be there, but sometimes they're not quite there. I was actually going to come in to comment pretty much the same thing Ibeechu did, since the weight shifting of his COG was the main thing missing form both cycles of walk in your animation. You can stand straight on two feet, and its impossible to lift one of your feet off the floor without your waist and torso shifting weight, you should try it. Your body automatically shifts the weight over, and its quite funny trying to stop it form doing so. Well, you can technically but you'll just fall to the side and you'll have to catch yourself.

I think this lack of weight shifting was particularly noticeable in both your cycles because your character has his legs so far apart form each other, which would mean he would have to shift that COG over a greater distance. Also the heavy load he is carrying would justify him having to shift that weight and center it with precision, so he can lift his other foot. You should use this to your advantage, because if you add it in it will look soo much better aye.

The situation with he blinks is also good advice. Although in real life you could technically blink at a moment (regardless of how less inclined you would be to do so) you need to think of those blink as a story telling method. For that particular section, having your character wide eyed and staring straight without blinking would drive his fear to us viewers, and would also demonstrate that he is consciously keeping his eyes wide open and thinking about what he is doing, since that walk backwards is not a casual walk and he is in danger and aware of his surroundings.

Yeah, that is all, keep animating and I'm keen to see an update aye. I'll definitely come and critique it :p

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#8 12-16-2013 2:43 am

Easy619
Registered: 12-15-2012
Posts: 498

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

I just thought it'd make the guy seem more human to blink. It seemed unnatural that he didn't blink his eyes that entire 9 seconds. On the first video.

p.s lol i shoulda gave u my reason behind making him blink.

Last edited by Easy619 (12-16-2013 2:48 am)


"Computers don't create computer animation any more then a pencil creates pencil animation. What creates computer animation is the artist."

- John Lasseter

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#9 12-16-2013 7:02 am

felixHonda
From: Chula Vista
Registered: 11-26-2013
Posts: 43

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Thanks for the encouragement Rafael! After filming the motions (tomorrow most likely), I'll go in and really polish those walks. I also see your point on the weight shifting and will try to add the side to side motion on the COG for each step.

And no worries Easy619, your advice seemed good at the time but I see the point for having each eye blink for a reason. Also I save my scenes as separate files so it's just as simple as opening up a previous scene. That whole blinking for a purpose reminded me of the scene from 'Forrest Gump' which was given to me as an example by Animation Mentor. If you notice the eye blinks, during certain parts, Forrest's lack of blinking goes on for over 30 seconds.

Direct Link



Thanks again everyone for all the help and I'll be sure to incorporate your suggestions and re-post soon!


felixHonda.

Platt College, School of Digital Media & Design [San Diego, CA] - Class of 2013

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#10 12-16-2013 1:49 pm

stompgal_87
From: London, England, UK
Registered: 10-01-2013
Posts: 67

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Very good. I specially like the character animation and the textures.

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#11 12-17-2013 12:12 am

felixHonda
From: Chula Vista
Registered: 11-26-2013
Posts: 43

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Thanks stompgal_87! Unfortunately I only take credit for the animation. Both the character and all the other models (including the textures) in the scene were provided courtesy of TF3DM and AnimSchool.

And sorry izxblatcx, I can't seem to understand your post. I can only read english and would still like to know what you have to say. Can you please repost in English?


felixHonda.

Platt College, School of Digital Media & Design [San Diego, CA] - Class of 2013

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#12 12-17-2013 8:35 am

bryanttan85
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Registered: 12-16-2007
Posts: 14
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Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Hi Felix,

I've just got some comments on my own here if you don't mind. smile

Overall I felt that the weight for his body and barrel not really there yet. Focus a lil more on his waist by adding 2 more frames when he's at his lowest as you want him to feel even heavier. Try Offsetting the arm when he's carrying the barrel from the body. I think that the blink should be needed in there but it's just where you time it at. I would personally have a few of it when he first look up at the ceiling as he'll probably be scared in the beginning. The keyposes siljhouette for his screen right leg can be enhance when he's carrying the barrel. The footstep's spacing can be a lil more dynamic instead of being so linear.

Last edited by bryanttan85 (12-17-2013 8:39 am)

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#13 12-17-2013 10:16 am

Easy619
Registered: 12-15-2012
Posts: 498

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Lol I actually looked up how often people blink the average person blinks once every 5 seconds. Depending on what your doing that'll change.


"Computers don't create computer animation any more then a pencil creates pencil animation. What creates computer animation is the artist."

- John Lasseter

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#14 12-17-2013 11:09 am

bryanttan85
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Registered: 12-16-2007
Posts: 14
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Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Yeah.. I agree on that. smile Unless you're reading or focusing on something.

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#15 12-17-2013 6:49 pm

felixHonda
From: Chula Vista
Registered: 11-26-2013
Posts: 43

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Good advice bryanttan85! I just filmed myself doing the actions and am applying the movements right now and agree with the lack of weight and linear foot-stepping. It's amazing how many little details can be seen when you film yourself as reference! But yea, I'll try to hold the down position a bit longer to see if that helps with the weight.


felixHonda.

Platt College, School of Digital Media & Design [San Diego, CA] - Class of 2013

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#16 12-17-2013 7:00 pm

Easy619
Registered: 12-15-2012
Posts: 498

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

felixHonda wrote:

Good advice bryanttan85! I just filmed myself doing the actions and am applying the movements right now and agree with the lack of weight and linear foot-stepping. It's amazing how many little details can be seen when you film yourself as reference! But yea, I'll try to hold the down position a bit longer to see if that helps with the weight.

Yea filming urself is fun to imo. I was suprised to see how much the head moves when filming. So many subtle movements.


"Computers don't create computer animation any more then a pencil creates pencil animation. What creates computer animation is the artist."

- John Lasseter

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#17 12-18-2013 2:50 am

felixHonda
From: Chula Vista
Registered: 11-26-2013
Posts: 43

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Okay! So here is another update. I went ahead and filmed myself doing the motions and applied as much as I could to this version. From now on, I plan to use this technique because it really does help point out the subtle details and motions. I also removed the eye-blinks from before, but decided to take the advice to add in one right after he looks up at the ceiling (just before his eyes start to move).

               

Direct Link



Thanks again for all the suggestions for they have definitely helped! This whole animation community has been very supportive and helpful! I recommend that more people post their WIP's because as a beginner, the community critiques feel more important then the competition itself.

Now are there any other suggestions to further improve this animation?

Also, I'm not sure if it's just my browser, but the embedded video doesn't seem to scrub well, but if you got to the vimeo page itself (by clicking on the vimeo logo in the bottom right corner), the scrubbing is just fine.


felixHonda.

Platt College, School of Digital Media & Design [San Diego, CA] - Class of 2013

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#18 12-18-2013 3:43 am

NDee
Registered: 12-17-2013
Posts: 41

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

looking good smile i agree on what you said about more people should post their WIPs.. its a learn to learn process where we can learn form each other right smile

well if u ask for a suggestion from me to improve on this id say.. try to check back the spacing of his walk at the beginning, especially from his 3rd step to the last step..  i kinda notice like hes moving fast there.. or is it just me? im not realy sure.. overall good job man big_smile

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#19 12-18-2013 6:41 am

bryanttan85
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Registered: 12-16-2007
Posts: 14
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Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Looking good. so.. You're asking for more now? hehehe.

Personal Opinion,
- The weight does improve but it's not really there yet still. May i know what kind of objects you're carrying in your video reference? try carrying something as heavy as you imagine the barrel would be. You'll find out more details from the reference itself. smile

- He's standing up after putting down the barrel by not having any support from his hand. Try giving him support by maybe having a push with his hand from the barrel or something and I felt that the timing is a lil too fast. probably can fit in another inbetween there. Make sure the pushing pose is clear so it sell the idea.

- I find that the overlap on his head is a lil too big. Felt like it's breaking when he put down the barrel and also when he's trying to avoid the wood falling. smile

Hope this help. I'm working on mine aswell.

Last edited by bryanttan85 (12-18-2013 6:44 am)

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#20 12-18-2013 9:55 am

madfrog
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From: Narnia
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Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

You need to work on the overlaps.The first thing that's catching my eye is how his spine remains so stiff and mostly straight through out.I would suggest adding a frame counter and then uploading it to dropbox so that we can go frame by frame.


"An animator's life is always full of breakdowns" -  Me

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#21 12-18-2013 9:41 pm

felixHonda
From: Chula Vista
Registered: 11-26-2013
Posts: 43

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Thanks NDee! I'll look into the spacing during the 3rd and 4th step. I'm trying to make it appear that the barrel is pulling him as he tries to stop (to give a sense of weight). And I'm glad that you agree because posting these WIP have really helped with the learning process.

bryanttan85, I was carrying a box full of text books. They were pretty heavy, lol! But I guess I can try to walk with something even more heavier to see if it makes a difference. And good call about pushing off with the hand, I was thinking something was missing with the overall movement and that must have been it. I'll integrate that in for the next version (also I'll see about fixing the overlap in the head).

madfrog, I agree with the overlaps and I'll try to push them more for the next render. Oh! And I just updated my last video post with a frame counter as suggested! As for the frame by frame scrubbing, for some reason it doesn't seem to work well in the embedded video. But if you go to the actual video post on Vimeo (click on the 'direct link' below the video), then the scrubbing works just fine and you can go frame by frame, at least it works in my browser (Chrome seems to work the best). if it doesn't work in yours, let me know and I'll try to do the dropbox thing for the next upload.


felixHonda.

Platt College, School of Digital Media & Design [San Diego, CA] - Class of 2013

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#22 12-31-2013 10:41 pm

felixHonda
From: Chula Vista
Registered: 11-26-2013
Posts: 43

Re: WIP - December 2013 - Old Warehouse

Thanks everyone for all the critiques and helpful feedback! I tried to incorporate all of your tips into this render. So here is the final version for the competition!

               

Direct Link



Thanks again for all the help and I wish you all the best of luck in the competition and happy holidays!


felixHonda.

Platt College, School of Digital Media & Design [San Diego, CA] - Class of 2013

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