#1 03-03-2013 10:34 am

Uncle11
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Haven't I seen this before?

I don't mean to start a witch hunt or anything, but while voting for February I came across a video that seemed very familiar. I had a feeling I had seen it before. It turns out it's a perfect copy of an entry in the Animation Mentor Student Showcase Summer 2009:

http://i47.tinypic.com/li6ia.jpg

Now I know that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but it's not really original. Jut thought I'd mention it.

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Last edited by Uncle11 (03-03-2013 11:00 am)

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#2 03-03-2013 11:05 am

wolfor
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

Well there you go, I think this happens a lot without people noticing it... I wouldn't have, for starters. I mean its obvious, of course, I just didn't know the original from the showcase.
But the copied animation is rather bad anyways, so this person wouldn't have fared very well anyways, I think...

Last edited by wolfor (03-03-2013 11:07 am)

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#3 03-03-2013 5:03 pm

robcat2075
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

It does look similar although they are all pretty common cartoon poses.

I recall seeing "notes to animators"  for "King of the Hill" posted somewhere.  One of them was "stop having Hank rub the back of his neck.  Do something new!"


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#4 03-03-2013 8:27 pm

Victor
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

robcat2075 wrote:

It does look similar although they are all pretty common cartoon poses.

I recall seeing "notes to animators"  for "King of the Hill" posted somewhere.  One of them was "stop having Hank rub the back of his neck.  Do something new!"

You're right, but you can't defend this. He or she has clearly copied the AM-clip frame by frame.

Last edited by Victor (03-03-2013 8:29 pm)

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#5 03-03-2013 9:24 pm

KyleG
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

ya there's a big difference in using similar poses & blatantly copying someone elses shot. All the blinks even line up and are in the same spot


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#6 03-03-2013 10:37 pm

LSalmain
From: France
Registered: 12-06-2012
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

the character have the same look too ... strange

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#7 03-03-2013 11:12 pm

Jay6
From: Canada
Registered: 01-17-2013
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

Huh, the Animation Mentor animation looks superb in comparison.

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#8 03-04-2013 2:07 am

robcat2075
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

Well, I was going to tell you how Picasso said "good artists borrow, great artists steal," but it turns out he never said that.


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#9 03-04-2013 5:51 am

rdchan
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

Sooo, seeing that the rig is not available to the public, either this person has a non-sanctioned version of the rig (which is very bad)... or he/she is an AM student and plagarizing work (which is also very bad).


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#10 03-04-2013 3:01 pm

ChocoBilly
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

The entry has been disqualified.

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#11 03-04-2013 3:21 pm

dnoparker
From: Nottingham, UK
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

Why do you think people do this?

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#12 03-04-2013 9:51 pm

J.K. Riki
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

dnoparker wrote:

Why do you think people do this?

People want to be liked, and create things people like.


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#13 03-04-2013 11:03 pm

eriksvensson
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

dnoparker wrote:

Why do you think people do this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratification (under instant gratification..)

That's why social media have such impact on us humans and make us want more of it. It's simple to take the easy way of copying or doing something that doesn't take hard work or time, then wait for people to pile up and like the work that you didn't really spend any time doing. It makes us feel good and we want more of it. It's a shame when people don't want to do it the hard way then get the gratification.


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#14 03-04-2013 11:27 pm

dnoparker
From: Nottingham, UK
Registered: 11-16-2012
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

eriksvensson wrote:

dnoparker wrote:

Why do you think people do this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratification (under instant gratification..)

That's why social media have such impact on us humans and make us want more of it. It's simple to take the easy way of copying or doing something that doesn't take hard work or time, then wait for people to pile up and like the work that you didn't really spend any time doing. It makes us feel good and we want more of it. It's a shame when people don't want to do it the hard way then get the gratification.

I would feel far too guilty for me to even be a little gratified. I hope that the guy who created that animation reads this thread and takes away an important lesson.

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#15 03-05-2013 12:02 am

robcat2075
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

Elephant in the room alert!

This whole contest is premised on... borrowing... without permission... some very talented people's voice performance.  We're not just getting inspiration from it and then re-performing it ourselves, we're just plopping it unaltered in the audio track and using it.

Not the same thing, you say?  I say you have to acknowledge that we are all doing some serious swiping here and piggybacking on other people's hard work.


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#16 03-05-2013 12:42 am

heymikey
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

robcat2075 wrote:

Elephant in the room alert!

This whole contest is premised on... borrowing... without permission... some very talented people's voice performance.  We're not just getting inspiration from it and then re-performing it ourselves, we're just plopping it unaltered in the audio track and using it.

Not the same thing, you say?  I say you have to acknowledge that we are all doing some serious swiping here and piggybacking on other people's hard work.

...not entirely...its different when you borrow and then try to pass it off as your own...that's called plagiarism. Its okay to quote someone in a book and then reference it with a foot note which is like what we do with audio for these purposes.

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#17 03-05-2013 1:09 am

lizardj
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

I respectfully disagree. It is true we don't own the soundbites/audio clips, but that is not the point. The competition, IMO, is about our ability to interpret these very talented people's voice performance and come up with original animation/story inspired by it. It's like choreographing a dance routine, just because you didn't also write, compose, and record the music that goes along, your dance doesn't all of a sudden become borrowed work.

robcat2075 wrote:

Elephant in the room alert!

This whole contest is premised on... borrowing... without permission... some very talented people's voice performance.  We're not just getting inspiration from it and then re-performing it ourselves, we're just plopping it unaltered in the audio track and using it.

Not the same thing, you say?  I say you have to acknowledge that we are all doing some serious swiping here and piggybacking on other people's hard work.

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#18 03-05-2013 1:27 am

robcat2075
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

The fact the the competitions is "about" animating to those voice clips doesn't mean you're not taking advantage of those voice clips.

The fact that it may be legal as "fair use" does not mean you are not hugely benefiting from these other peoples' work.

We could have a contest for any objectionable activity and say it's ok because it's a contest.

I think it's extremely interesting that this guy was able to copy those poses down to the eyeballs, drop them onto a completely different voice track and it still worked. 

That's a bit of an artistic commentary in itself.

What does that say about animation acting in general?  Maybe it's all turned into a bunch generic shrugs and glances and mannerisms that we are just swapping in and out of different shots.

Last edited by robcat2075 (03-05-2013 1:27 am)


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#19 03-05-2013 6:30 am

rdchan
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

Robocat, I do think your comment that we're taking someone elses "work" and using it to our benefit is fair enough, but it is completely different than plagarism, which is what is done here.  Yes we're using an audio clip not done by us, but it's cited, and we're not trying to pass it as our own work.  We're also not trying to make money from it, and you can argue it's for "educational purposes".  So there's a significant difference i think.

But with that said, I completely agree with the animation acting in general thing.  I'm often unimpressed and it's all starting to look the same to me, even in a lot of feature animations.  There are plenty of moments when the acting doesn't match the voice at all.  And I think there's a lot of things contributing to that (i think people reference other animations too much, the animation pool is growing so the amount of average or below average "acting talent" is growing, etc.)  But that's not to say that at times, I'm blown away by some shots.  Having just watched Life of Pi last night, the animation on Richard Parker was just ridiculously good.


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#20 03-05-2013 6:40 am

cbarnard
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

robcat2075 wrote:

The fact the the competitions is "about" animating to those voice clips doesn't mean you're not taking advantage of those voice clips.

The fact that it may be legal as "fair use" does not mean you are not hugely benefiting from these other peoples' work.

We could have a contest for any objectionable activity and say it's ok because it's a contest.

I think it's extremely interesting that this guy was able to copy those poses down to the eyeballs, drop them onto a completely different voice track and it still worked. 

That's a bit of an artistic commentary in itself.

What does that say about animation acting in general?  Maybe it's all turned into a bunch generic shrugs and glances and mannerisms that we are just swapping in and out of different shots.

He used the same file from the 2009 showcase anyway, it's very obvious. the most work he did was change some textures around, the guy isn't the rainman of animation just because he knows how to con people and put out a different render.

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#21 03-05-2013 2:26 pm

talldreams
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

Wow. I think this is a first for me. I have been around for a loooonng time, since the days of 10second club. I've voted on thousands of clips and I can't remember ever seeing plagiarism. I mean, I've heard of it happening, but I've never actually seen it. Maybe I need to pay closer attention as I'm voting.


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#22 03-05-2013 2:28 pm

Lajo12345
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

did you pull the file? i don't see it in the list of entries anymore.


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#23 03-05-2013 4:38 pm

robcat2075
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

cbarnard wrote:

He used the same file from the 2009 showcase anyway, it's very obvious. the most work he did was change some textures around,

Are you saying he somehow got the Maya file from the original animator? How would he get that?


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This is only a... my gallery of CG tests
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#24 03-05-2013 4:41 pm

robcat2075
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

rdchan wrote:

But with that said, I completely agree with the animation acting in general thing.  I'm often unimpressed and it's all starting to look the same to me, even in a lot of feature animations.

I tried watching "Megamind" last night and after about 9 minutes i felt like i was seeing the same stuff over and over.


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This is only a... my gallery of CG tests
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#25 03-05-2013 4:55 pm

KyleG
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Re: Haven't I seen this before?

are you saying there is nothing wrong with what he did robocat? And that using an audiofile from a movie is the same type of "stealing" as copying someone elses animation frame by frame?

Ya you will see poses reused here and there...but in Megamind, they didn't just reuse/copy all the animation from Over The Head & just redub the audio

"I think it's extremely interesting that this guy was able to copy those poses down to the eyeballs, drop them onto a completely different voice track and it still worked.  "

I disagree - I don't think it works very well at all - its not hitting any of the audio beats, its feels like its just moving through poses while audio is being played on top

k

Last edited by KyleG (03-05-2013 4:58 pm)


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