#1 08-11-2012 3:01 am

eddie j
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UP scene

i want to have a powerful message to my cartoons and to my entriesIdidn't want to step on toe ether. I know i have to think about this even farter,about the background the poses agian well this is my 1st draft so just enjoy and comment and critiques please.

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#2 08-11-2012 3:05 am

dgovil
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Re: UP scene

I would highyl recommend NOT using characters that everyones familiar with. You're doing yourself a disservice by making people draw that comparison


Dhruv Govil

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#3 08-11-2012 3:19 am

eddie j
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Re: UP scene

yo, Man i respect you a lot I even try to call you about scripting Python to Maya. But now i think i need an another opinion ok.

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#4 08-11-2012 7:27 am

wolfor
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Re: UP scene

dgovil wrote:

I would highyl recommend NOT using characters that everyones familiar with. You're doing yourself a disservice by making people draw that comparison

What he said. smile

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#5 08-11-2012 2:04 pm

eddie j
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Re: UP scene

Man Wolfor, I'm excited to continue this clip there were pleaty of people doing famous characters.
But i kind of want a comment or critique?

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#6 08-12-2012 5:13 am

dgovil
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Re: UP scene

eddie j wrote:

yo, Man i respect you a lot I even try to call you about scripting Python to Maya. But now i think i need an another opinion ok.

Haha, thanks, but I don't see what my abilities in one have to do with the other.

Anyway, if you want actual critique, here's my notes:
>You're drawing outlines not volumes. This is a biggie for most of the non winning 2D entries so far: nobody draws volume. You can't draw in this style without drawing the underlying structure.
It'll also help make your characters more appealing. Right now, they're not very appealing.


>You're not drawing gestures or roughs. There has never been a succesful 2D animator who just drew straight cleans.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_0hrrWXjfxC4/T … 1600/2.jpg

That's a rough from Glen Keane in beauty and the beast.
http://www.11secondclub.com/forum/viewt … p?id=17647

>Your faces and poses are all too similar. There's no variety in the scene.
>Your background has no perspective, you're camera is head on and your composition needs adjustment.
This is because you haven't done a layout or storyboard to precede it. You can get away in 3D without these, but not in 2D.


>And my note on using a well known character, he's not even the central character here. I'm obviously not going to force you on the issue, but just ask yourself this: is there any single good reason to use him vs another character?


ie don't fall in love with an idea. I knew this before, but after working in the industry, it hits me even harder: nothing you do as art, is worth NOT throwing away. I see incredibly talented animators everyday having to throw away incredible pieces of animation because the director wants something different.
Heck, a buddy of mine is animating an single eyeball in a feature and the director's had him making major changes for weeks. << and he's a great animator.

Last edited by dgovil (08-12-2012 5:15 am)


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#7 08-12-2012 8:32 pm

eddie j
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Re: UP scene

thanks that was helpful for now and in the future. i know i draw clean like its finish i will try to brake out of that.
but this is something ive made in photoshop so if i wasn't for drawing clean i would have a finish look for the final take a peak and enjoy.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1667264/Untitled.jpg

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#8 08-17-2012 8:19 pm

eddie j
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Re: UP scene

just a new work in progress base on the pixar movie up 

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comment and curitiques are welcome!!

Last edited by eddie j (08-17-2012 8:22 pm)

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#9 08-21-2012 11:20 pm

eddie j
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Re: UP scene

this is really just a test i working with the range of color i think im doing pretty good how is my solid drawing.

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Last edited by eddie j (08-21-2012 11:21 pm)

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#10 08-22-2012 6:08 pm

eddie j
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Re: UP scene

ive post this on youtube.com .May be eazier to see now. I've put in a lot of time in this clip maybe more then the clips i've made before this one. the grays are film grain from photoshop filters .Maybe next i will do a  colored clip later on. I've alway wanted you to enjoy so just enjoy watching ok!

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i had added some frames to the ending and added the house going up and away.

Last edited by eddie j (08-22-2012 6:11 pm)

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#11 08-23-2012 6:28 pm

eddie j
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Re: UP scene

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This may be my final.... I may use some more frames for the up character

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#12 08-23-2012 7:17 pm

jabobob
From: UK
Registered: 08-22-2012
Posts: 33

Re: UP scene

This does not seem finished? It would be great if you could get the lip sync working, but that would take close to 24 fps. I like the acting. When he says "I own the stage" it would be good if he went behind the man and appeared to the right of him looking intently into the back of the mans head as he said it. I don't think the old mans reaction at end communicates much either.


"What then is truth? A movable host of metaphors, metonymies, and anthropomorphisms: in short, a sum of human relations which have been poetically and rhetorically intensified, transferred, and embellished, and which, after long usage, seem to a people to be fixed, canonical, and binding." Friedrich Nietzsche

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#13 08-23-2012 9:03 pm

eddie j
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Re: UP scene

if you think that my lipsync is not working please tell me where im falling of because i been looking and working on it all week.

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#14 08-24-2012 2:54 am

eddie j
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Re: UP scene

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i've stop falling in love with my ending and made a followthough to my ending
just to strengthen my work and also man to finish the animation clip.

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#15 08-26-2012 9:59 pm

eddie j
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Re: UP scene

I would like to ask how is my solid drawing,timing, and lip sync in the clip?
I think my be he should lift up his walker or something. I've named this Ownership Rights.

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Last edited by eddie j (08-26-2012 10:04 pm)

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#16 08-27-2012 12:26 am

dgovil
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Re: UP scene

Well,you're not going to like any of this feedback, and believe me I'm not trying to be harsh, only helpful:

In terms of lip sync...there really is none. His mouths open for the entire sequence except for one closed frame. I don't really know what to say other than, lips move in a lip sync even for the muppets

As for solid drawing etc, I don't think you've got that down yet. It's better than your first attempt, but your still drawing too clean and you're not drawing structure or force.
You really need to start drawing rough because your cleans will be much better. I have not seen you upload a single rough process drawing or see anything that looks like it was cleaned from one.
Don't be afraid to animate loose, all the pros do it for a reason.

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If your local art community or school offers life drawing, I'd suggest going to that. It's surprising how much breaking down anatomically correct figures really trains you to really understand drawing a cartoon.

I think studying composition etc might be in order. The eye is drawn to certain things in a frame before others.
Motion is one, as is contrast and detail as well as whats in the thirds crossovers.
It's why 2D Bg's are very simple usually, so that they don't compete for attention
Also guess what's in the most dominant third, with the clearest silhouette and the most motion? That house. Nobody will be looking at the animation on the first play through.
Also guess what's completely unnecessary and probably stems from you wanting it to be related to UP: the House and the BG

As for animation and timing, your timing is not bad but your motions switch between floaty and poppy. The floatiness is from you inbetweening evenly(and too much) and the  poppiness is from you not putting enough inbetweens where it's needed.

Your acting choices for the main guy are pretty solid. But for Carl, i mean he's pretty blasse, like he doesn't care what he's being told. I don't think that's what you were going for.
Also you never addressed my note on the eye direction (or any of my notes actually, which I don't actually care about but then it makes me wonder why you're posting if you won't even try the feedback). Carl is still looking off somewhere else and his eyes shift way before the guy moves.





All I'm saying is, before taking a step forward, take 10 steps back, reevaluate where you are and then move ahead. I honestly don't care if you listen to my feedback or not (I don't have any stake in your animation), but I'm just typing up these comments in case you do feel like addressing some of those notes.


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#17 08-27-2012 3:21 am

eddie j
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Re: UP scene

http://www.dropbox.com/s/nlia93kg629968 … g401.jpg?m

i did this yesterday no lie. and i draw nude models. i even sketch on those too. i did that to see about a personal project it kindof tough. a raddit laughing crazy. heres the wav file.

http://soundbible.com/1917-Hahaha.html

and about Carl's eyes it was just one image where he does that. i will correct that, it was probably an older frame that worked for the older versions of my clip. ps: his mouth is closed in the front end when he says "dream."

Last edited by eddie j (08-28-2012 2:46 am)

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#18 08-29-2012 3:05 am

pollywoggles
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 06-24-2012
Posts: 89

Re: UP scene

I really like dgovil's comments.  I couldn't come close to expressing it as well as he did. 

In particular, I really like his comments on drawing volumes.  I feel like I'm missing that in your drawings, even in that rough rabbit drawing.


Paul

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#19 08-29-2012 4:24 am

eddie j
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Re: UP scene

well Pollywoggle, I don't know what to say. I'm a little stun. Don't get me wrong but i've tuck heed to what he was saying. but roughs are in general poses that are not flushed out into clean art animation yet. i would like to get better and not stay in a place where i am missing out just because i am not doing rough for my workflow. i kind of planned out my shot.

but i know what's the probelm. It's story boards.... even in a scene like this one. i had to use story boards. just trying to apply what you are saying to the artwork im doing. Thank Pollywoggle, I still don't see why your missing drawing volumes in my drawing of the rabbit. maybe it looks more like a sketch then a rounded figure study.

Last edited by eddie j (08-29-2012 4:26 am)

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#20 08-29-2012 11:50 pm

dgovil
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Re: UP scene

eddie j wrote:

Don't get me wrong but i've tuck heed to what he was saying. but roughs are in general poses that are not flushed out into clean art animation yet. i would like to get better and not stay in a place where i am missing out just because i am not doing rough for my workflow. i kind of planned out my shot.
Thank Pollywoggle, I still don't see why your missing drawing volumes in my drawing of the rabbit. maybe it looks more like a sketch then a rounded figure study.

Volumes are not necessarily rounded. It just means that when you're drawing, your drawing the object as is, and not as you see it.

ie, if I draw an apple, I will draw the apple with the knowledge that there is a backside to it. You're drawings only take into account the final 2D projection of the object.

Look at the winner for last month: http://www.11secondclub.com/competitions/july12/winner
He drew volumetric shapes. There's a construction to his drawings. There is force.

Your drawings are the outlines of this. Even in their rough form, its a bunch of squiggly lines that define an outline.
What you should be aiming for is a bunch of squigly lines that define the interior.

Your roughs also lack force. Ie: you are drawing an object as you see it in a still. You should always draw the object in an action, in a story.

These are great 30s roughs:
http://mermuse.jmwebdesigns.com/post/pen_gesture.jpg

Books I recommend you get:
Force Life Drawing by Mike Mattesi
Drawn by Walt Stanchfield


Dhruv Govil

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#21 08-30-2012 12:10 am

eddie j
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Re: UP scene

im going to let that go but i strongly disagree
ps:

The face of the character maybe flat and not seem rounded but his mouth and definetly his hat
is rounded.

I created a character that is block headed to live in a world as carl's from the movie "UP".
this is now a 2D world Carl's head is blocked. I realize that he has a backside and my clean drawing shows.

Last edited by eddie j (08-30-2012 1:02 am)

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#22 08-30-2012 1:24 am

eddie j
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Re: UP scene

this updated has carl looking with eye darts

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#23 08-30-2012 8:56 pm

doffer
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From: Valence, France
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Re: UP scene

Hi smile

For drawing, you could try and look at some of Danial Lopez Munoz drawings. He designed Carl, and has some really wonderful, rough sketches of Carl. I'm not saying you have to draw at this level. That's the highest level of artistry.
But it might give you some idea about, what people mean when saying drawing rough and dimensional
http://www.animationgym.com/cms/entrevi … z-de-pixar

Hope it helps a bit smile

Christoffer


Christoffer Andersen - www.doffer.dk
Senior Animator

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#24 08-31-2012 5:08 pm

Cfong
Registered: 08-30-2012
Posts: 1

Re: UP scene

Hi Eddie J, I realize it's 10 hours til the deadline, but I'm just curious, what's your animation process?  I mean, what were the exact steps that you took to go from an idea in your head, to putting that idea down on paper (or computer in this case).  You mentioned storyboards, how much time did you spend on those, and what did you do afterwards?  When you animated, did you straight ahead it, or pose-to-pose it?

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#25 08-31-2012 5:46 pm

eddie j
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Karmojo: 6

Re: UP scene

Thanks for commenting in the first place. Yeah man, I when for the animation in a pose to pose style. you probably see in my first post that they are still uses in the final... like they are key frames. About storyboards, i trying not to say that i did none which is true. but i think i should. I work in Digicel Flipbook. I pride myself by saying i pay the $300 for it to do animations like this one.On the naked post no contrast one you can see how i worked in Flipbook. Afterward i used Photoshop to sit the characters down to a mid shot showing their chest(not the legs) and also i did a filter in photoshop called (film grain). Then a lot of clean up for that.

I had fun! thanks everybody. I hope you understand the summary Cfong!

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the final, the end, the mondano!

Last edited by eddie j (08-31-2012 5:53 pm)

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