#26 05-29-2011 6:47 am

kiopaa
Participator
From: France
Registered: 12-15-2008
Posts: 74
Karmojo: 8

Re: mini challenge week 8: The box jump

Hi, here is my attempt, only blocking for the moment

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Last edited by kiopaa (05-29-2011 10:03 pm)

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#27 05-29-2011 7:16 am

WyRd
Rockstar
From: Montreal, Canada
Registered: 04-30-2011
Posts: 72
Karmojo: 75

Re: mini challenge week 8: The box jump

These challenges look awesome  I will definitely participate next month , Was going to this month but was still animating balls most of the month.


Check out my animation blog: at www.brendonvince.blogspot.com

Also would love to chat to other animators on MSN or Gchat smile

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#28 05-29-2011 5:19 pm

TonyChau
Upright Citizen
From: California
Registered: 05-27-2010
Posts: 294
Karmojo: 41

Re: mini challenge week 8: The box jump

Hey guys!  Saw penguin's message and thought I'd drop by.  Taking a look at the two that haven't gotten critiques yet, I can't seem to view kiopaa's though sad  I'm just a student like most folks here, but I'll try my best anyway.

Victor:

I think I saw you post a splined version in the personal work area, but it's easier to see the poses here.  Right off the bat the thing that strikes me is the straight vertical down of the root up until F24.  As a person leans forward, they shift their hips back in order to stay balanced.  You can make the argument that he's shifting the weight onto his toes, but the hips would have a bit of backward translate regardless.  It'll make it more believable / balanced, make the anticipation stronger, and give you a nice flowing arc that's appealing to look at.

Once he hits his down pose the spine locks a bit.  Think of the spine as a reverse pendulum and the head is the tail (not to that much of an extreme, but the connection is still there).  The hips will drive the action, but the upper chest / head will drag a little bit.

On the landing, make sure that he's contacting the box first before his spine starts to change that much.  The reason why his torso leans that far forward is cause he's pushing down with his leg, and the box pushes back up onto his hip.  The hip slows down, but the torso keeps continuing past it - overlapping into the lean.  Hope that makes sense.

I'm seeing some offsetting keys, where only one or two controls are being moved while the rest of the body stays still.  I know some people are great at working this way (and if you feel confident with it then just ignore this note), but I just encourage posing out everything in a key regardless of how small the movement.  For example when he gets to the box, you have his leg offset by a single frame - but his leg can't really move without affecting the body.  Picking apart offsets like that so early on make it harder to manage as you clean it up.  For me at least.

When he starts to get up from jumping onto the box, make sure the hips travel in an arc.  If I remember right, even the spline version has a very V-like path of action there.  And keep the hip towards screen right a little more and ease into the balanced pose at the end as he's rotating his torso back to straight.

Some suggestions on the shot itself would be to offset the take off of the jump, it'll give you more appealing poses while in the air and give you nicer silhouettes.  You could stagger the feet on landing for the same reason (one foot in front of the other).  Try shooting some video reference of yourself to get a sense of how your body works while doing the action. 

The shot is looking good - keep up the good work!


KLaw:

Shot is looking cool man.  The main thing I'd say is that there is a lot going on here and it's a whole class to just get the mechanics of the stop > walk > run at the beginning.  Probably the biggest thing I see is that the hip translation forward has a lot of hitches.  For now I'll just focus on the actual jump though.

Take note of the angle his leg is at when he actually pushes off into the jump.  It's pretty steep and so the next few frames he goes higher.  But it sets up the problem of him not being able to actually reach the other side.  What happens then is the spacing gets compromised and it feels like he's being vacuumed to the right side.  An important tip is to note that once you're in the air, there isn't much you can do to change your direction or speed unless there really is a vacuum in the scene, or you're falling at max speed and wind resistance plays a big role.  So track the spacing of his hips from the final push off frame and the frame before that. 

Direct Link



The following spaces between these two frames should be pretty similar up until he contacts the ground on the other side.  But if you go further and track the rest of the current ones, you'll see a lot of irregularity.

Direct Link



Try to keep the forward movement of the root consistent throughout the jump and pose it in a way that will allow you to keep it consistent.

Hope this helps - try to tag on frame counters guys!  And for critiques purposes just export em out on a smaller, even-sized frame.  Good luck out there!

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#29 05-29-2011 5:43 pm

thelittlepenguin84
Upright Citizen
From: Bristol
Registered: 03-30-2010
Posts: 2028
Karmojo: 47
Moderator

Re: mini challenge week 8: The box jump

Hey Tony,
thank you for providing your critiques. Pretty detailed, so thank you.

Just to let you people know, the challenge will officially end whatever time midnight hits your country on monday. However, I'm hoping people will have time to finish their work. Therefore, although the new challenge will be posted on a monday as always, I can give whoever wishes an extra day.
Please upload your finished work, via a quicktime using dropbox, by midnight tuesday. Just post the the link in this thread and i can collect your work from there.

If you wish me to make a link to your online portfolio, please also provide the url. Please note, work posted after midnight on tues, will not be presented on the blog. Thank you

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#30 05-29-2011 7:53 pm

Victor
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Registered: 05-06-2011
Posts: 156
Karmojo: 66

Re: mini challenge week 8: The box jump

Man, I've missed your critiques Tony! smile Thank you so much for that! I will try working on all of it.

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#31 05-29-2011 10:05 pm

kiopaa
Participator
From: France
Registered: 12-15-2008
Posts: 74
Karmojo: 8

Re: mini challenge week 8: The box jump

TonyChau wrote:

... I can't seem to view kiopaa's though sad  ...

Sorry, I think I fixed the link.

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#32 05-30-2011 4:53 am

TonyChau
Upright Citizen
From: California
Registered: 05-27-2010
Posts: 294
Karmojo: 41

Re: mini challenge week 8: The box jump

Cool kioppa you got it working.  Hopefully this won't be too late, but here are a few things I see in the shot:

Direct Link



On a general note, kinda similar to Victor's shot, spreading the legs and offsetting the lifts / contacts etc. can really spice up the shot and make clear where and which leg is doing what.

The hips going back at F21 is looking nice.

Watch out for the action of the hip-spine from F26-34.  He actually travels backwards in mid air and causes the rest of the body parts to really pop (Path of action drawn on 36).  I'd encourage you to just try and film yourself jumping on a box (or finding a clip) just to study how the body parts interact with each other as it goes through the motion.

I think F41-46 needs to be broken down some more and at F51 he seems to stop pretty short, he might need to move a little further to screen right.

The stand up through to F62 doesn't have that hip shifting to balance himself.  You can see the hip stick in place and all that happens is the body rotating.  If your body leans in a big way and the hip is locked in space, one of the poses is off-balance.  Hopefully those drawings make sense.

I think he might need to be a tiny bit further screen right to justify the box tipping over.  Being super nit picky here though.

At F70 I think he may be leaning too far back already.  The head travels back on itself and it might look smoother if the head traveled screen right.  Keep him dragging behind, but from the root you could rotate him forward a little more.

F79-81 has a hip stick.  And through the jump to the landing watch out for the spacing.  It's very clustered near the peak and then a huge pop in a single frame to contact.  Try to smooth that out a bit.

With the side-step at the end, try to get the foot to lead the action and then have the main hip shift move after.  This is something you can just get up and try for yourself.  Stand up, take a side step - your foot will normally go ahead and the hips will barely start to shift.  Once it's planted your hip will shoot over.

Good looking shot overall.  Keep up the good work.  Hope this helps - see ya around!

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#33 05-30-2011 6:19 am

kiopaa
Participator
From: France
Registered: 12-15-2008
Posts: 74
Karmojo: 8

Re: mini challenge week 8: The box jump

Thanks a lot Tony. Your comments will be very helpful for me, I will take time to work on all the points.

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#34 05-30-2011 5:41 pm

KLaw
Upstanding Citizen
Registered: 03-24-2011
Posts: 11
Karmojo: 31

Re: mini challenge week 8: The box jump

Here are my quick critiques, keep in mind I am an animation enthusiast and not one with years of professional work experience :)   

@ mattwood2185
An original take on the box jump~!  I agree with thelittlepenguin84 about playing with the timing a bit more, I notice that he is even anticipating the fall in his body too soon. The spine inversions and whip-like movements are visually appealing but at the moment I feel that it's too much extreme at parts (with the head snapping back and forth). If you go ahead with having a delay in the box actually opening as suggested that will help vary the timing. The contact and bounce off the ground looks convincing.

@merj
great comments by StefanLipsius, I don't have too much to add besides keep working on it. I can see when you start using splines for your keyframes, his left foot will probably be crashing through the box, so you may have to plan a different trajectory to remedy this and like StefanLipsius recommended, change the size of the box accordingly. Would like to see this at a 3/4 view angle to add some more visual interest. :)

@victor
Good start, yes I think you should keep on working on this keeping in mind where the weight is at every frame. A couple of suggestions, the arc of the hips can be improved, for instance when he's standing up the arc can go down left and settle back up right (to create a figure 8 as StefanLipsius suggests). Think about how spine inversions work to show the store and release of energy, like in the preparation (as shown in attached picture). Also think that you can push for an even higher jump and shorten the time in the air to make the jump more snappier + more weight.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2561039/suggestions.jpg

@TonyChau
Thanks so much for the suggestion, I appreciate the time you spent drawing out the hip spacing, I will try this and repost! :) What program did you use to make these sketch overlays?

I did get a comment from someone (a professional VFX artist, not an animator) who said he liked that the jump "speeds up" near the end and seems stylized, but you're probably right from a physics stand-point it's quite off and would be better to show realistic spacing.


@the little penguin
thanks!  I created it for this challenge (and my portfolio) and it turned out better than expected, although I'm sure there are things to improve (like Tony's suggestions). hope to participate in some more this summer as I am dedicating it to improve (and hopefully get into a competetive anim. course!)

@kiopaa
sorry running out of time to comment on your animation, but I will try to on your next WIP :)

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#35 05-31-2011 12:15 am

merj
Registered: 05-24-2011
Posts: 27

Re: mini challenge week 8: The box jump

Direct Link



Im calling this done, which Im sure it isnt but ..... Thanks for the crits guys!!

Mario

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#36 05-31-2011 1:40 am

KLaw
Upstanding Citizen
Registered: 03-24-2011
Posts: 11
Karmojo: 31

Re: mini challenge week 8: The box jump

Hi, here's my updated animation incorporating Tony's suggestions (I think!) :)   Oh and sorry, it's 30fps as I didn't see the frame rate rules before I started.

Direct Link

Last edited by KLaw (05-31-2011 1:41 am)

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#37 06-01-2011 4:29 am

kiopaa
Participator
From: France
Registered: 12-15-2008
Posts: 74
Karmojo: 8

Re: mini challenge week 8: The box jump

Hi,
Here is an update of my animation, I try to follow Tony's suggestions.

Direct Link


I know it's too late, but I would like to finish it !

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#38 06-01-2011 4:58 am

TonyChau
Upright Citizen
From: California
Registered: 05-27-2010
Posts: 294
Karmojo: 41

Re: mini challenge week 8: The box jump

Hah that's looking sweet kiopaa - nice work.

Good work as well merj!

Klaw your video isn't showing for some reason sad would love to see it!

Last edited by TonyChau (06-01-2011 4:58 am)

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#39 06-01-2011 5:11 am

KLaw
Upstanding Citizen
Registered: 03-24-2011
Posts: 11
Karmojo: 31

Re: mini challenge week 8: The box jump

Oops!  Cut and pasted it in another folder by accident, it should be there now.

Going to be working on the run next to make it seem more believable and "fast", currently checking out some tutorials.

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#40 06-13-2011 7:11 am

kiopaa
Participator
From: France
Registered: 12-15-2008
Posts: 74
Karmojo: 8

Re: mini challenge week 8: The box jump

Hi, I just finished this animation, thanks again for your comments.

               

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